My Rights vs Rights of Others

[newmochick]

Have question to the problems with new residence moving into the area, would not the interpetation of the covenants be grandfathered so you would be protected. If someone moving into the area didn't look around first, stop and roll down the window and "listen to the area sounds", meet the neighbors, etc., who then would be at fault? My vet had problems with a new subdivision next door about dogs barking! They knew about it because the sign said vet/kennel! People were so arrogant that they thought they could shut him down!

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

I have a problem with nuisance ordinances that are not specific--they leave way too much leaway for interpretation. Speckled Han, your restrictions could be ruled to disallow your roosters (taking only the written word into account). Numbers 6 & 8 are particularly worrisome. What is a nuisance? What is obnoxious? No mention is made of livestock or poultry, although the implied definition of "pet" (to exclude pigs) does infer that farm animals could be considered pets.

My lot is 6/10ths of an acre, and I am at the end of a cul-de-sac, so my neighbor's homes are fairly close. There are 151 lots on this approximately .25 sq mile development. I live IN the city, IN an HOA, and my restrictions (including zoning and city code) are very specific. Yet they allow me to have unlimited poultry, including roosters. However I can be fined if I break the noise ordinance. Without going and looking it up for the exact contraints, it regulates volume in decibels as measured at the property line, and includes times of day when louder levels are permitted (I think 6 am through 9 or 10 pm). How I prevent excess noise is up to me--not to a judge or city official who might say "get rid of your crowing rooster" as my only alterrnative. FWIW, the noise ordinance was NOT instituted due to animal noises--unless one is talking "party animals." We are a university city, and there were many, many noise complaints about loud parties going on all night, every night near ASU.

First violation is a warning, subsequent ones within a set timeframe can get increasingly and very expensive.

Also, I have to say I have never had any neighbors complain about my birds. I am occasionally asked if they can come see my birds and/or how I have my coops set up. I have many neighbors who have chickens and roosters.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
You need to ask a different question. What types of nuisance laws are there? Say you have a neighbor who regularly operates excessively noisy machinery into the wee hours--is the neighbor breaking any noise ordinance rules? What if a neighbor fails to maintain a swimming pool--allowing it to become a slimy green breeding ground for mosquitoes?

 

[redhen]

Quote:
You need to ask a different question. What types of nuisance laws are there? Say you have a neighbor who regularly operates excessively noisy machinery into the wee hours--is the neighbor breaking any noise ordinance rules? What if a neighbor fails to maintain a swimming pool--allowing it to become a slimy green breeding ground for mosquitoes?

ahh..i see. Got ya. Thanks!

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
This has happened in a LOT of places. Housing developments near airports are notorious for this. Airport exists, people move nearby for convenience or lower costs, then complain about the noise, causing the airport to change flight patterns, change operating hours or worse, shut down entirely. Ditto for dairies, feed lots and other livestock facilities that garner odor due to large numbers of animals in a small space.

 

[speckledhen]

As long as this man is alive, there won't be any enforcement of anything, which does sort of worry me a bit since one of his buddies could actually get his permission to plop down a mobile home across from my property (no insult meant to mobile home owners intended--it's in the restrictions).I can see him doing that because he doesn't want to have any argument with anyone. He's a bit of a milquetoast type. What I'd be more concerned with is new citified folks moving in and though no one can see my birds through all the trees, they can hear the roosters all around us, especially mine. We even have many "rooster villages" in this county, if you get my drift. Just so happens my own roosters would be closest to the neighbors in this development.

I think the vagueness of these restrictions he wrote would be to my good (or to my bad, depending). There is a hole you can drive a truck through in them. I just don't get how one person can restrict the rights of others simply because they are in regard to poultry, especially when the laws/restrictions are contradictory, i.e., the right to breed chickens, hence have a rooster, roosters crow, but the neighbors can say they want him gone. Whose rights take precedence, the ones of the folks who can't live and let live? Probably. Sad thing. Good discussion here. I appreciate the input.

 

[Chook-A-Holic]

Glad you started this thread...Great!!!

In 1984 I bought 2 acres in the country with about 12 houses on the part of the road I live on. I made sure(in writing) before closing that livestock was allowed so I would have no problems possessing and raising chickens. In the mid nineties the county amended the restrictions due to the area growing and multiple subdivisions going in up the road. These new amendments now banned any livestock on the property. Myself and the other 5 that had chickens, ducks, goats, cows, and horses etc. hired an attorney and fought for our rights to continue to have livestock. Our properties were grandfathered in due to livestock already being on them. I know the big developers were behind this and found out in court that they were. The judge finally told them that if they didn't want their potential buyers to have livestock around them to purchase our properties or put in their subdivisions somewhere else and declined the county to impose the new rules to existing properties with livestock. We did however have to keep any future livestock housing 15' or more from any property lines.

I recently had a new neighbor move in then come over 2 days later complaining "who the h_ _ _ has a rooster?, we don't allow livestock around here". It only took me about 2sec to straighten him out including an invitation back to NY. (I really liked the part about "we".) For the most part I don't worry about the noise my chickens make, however I do try to keep it at a minimum late in the evening due to having elderly neighbors on 2 sides of my property line, but at the same time I really don't worry about it. Overall I do have good neighbors and most want to bring their small kids over to see the chickens. I must say, I do like where I live, but the property taxes are getting unreal.

Again great thread!!!

 

[speckledhen]

I recently had a new neighbor move in then come over 2 days later complaining "who the h_ _ _ has a rooster?, we don't allow livestock around here".

That is just the type scenario I anticipate in the future here. We are the youngsters in the n'hood now, with most being in their 60's, 70's and 80's. It's just a fact that they will pass on and either sell the properties or leave them to younger relatives.​

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
You are correct vagueness could be to either side's benefit...DEPENDING. From what you have said, the deed restrictions are not law, so the question is...who is entitled to enforce these restrictions? If a restriction is routinely not enforced, it eventually becomes unenforceable. Contradictions are what make (or can) attorneys wealthy

My own HOA has one section that says that you can build a fence up to your front property line (literally to the edge of the street) for the purpose of containing your livestock, including horses. But a different section says that horses are not allowed to graze in front of your residence. When I asked our HOA attorney whether these were contradictory, she stated at them for a bit, then laughed and said that technically they were not. Horses are allowed to be there--they are just not allowed to eat the grass! Sounds like the breeding and noise are a similar thing--you can have them for breeding, the birds just have to be silent about it

 

[speckledhen]

Yeah, we'll get right on making those rooster muzzles, LOL.( or should I say "mufflers"?)