My White Leghorn - What to improve?

[gojira]

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It's going to take time for me to get those statistics out
I only have my phone and it's all on my computer which is down . I can look around the net but it's going to take me a day or two to get them all together . I hope you understand . thanks.

That is ok. I did not know if you knew them offhand. I just know everyone has different ideas on utility. When I was doing more with working dogs, I would see people talk all the time about working ability, but they never competed with their dogs. Or they competed, and the dogs never did well. I tend to have high standards, and most people don't like that. I am very critical of my own birds. So, if I ever sound critical, trust me, it is worse for my own birds.

 

[3riverschick]

Just so I am clear, what are you considering hallmarks? I was assuming you were meaning type in general, the things that make a bird a particular breed.

Yes, that's correct.
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Breeds seem to have been created for a few reasons. Some combined birds with traits they liked, both productive and aesthetic, and refined what they got out of those crosses. If one wanted egg production, Leghorn or Minorca was used. If one wanted size, Asiatics such as Cochins were used.

Yes, the Light Sussex was made from the Silver Grey Dorking, Cochin, Brahma .
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If you want production, you select for those characteristics. If the aesthetics are not selected for, the type changes quickly.

Ok now I know why Aesthetics are important.

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I come from a broad poultry background. I look at all sides. My son and I show birds, although it is mainly my son, as I let him choose the birds he wants to show, and I might take a few if I think they should be shown. With that said, I am breeding towards the standard of perfection, as that is what they are judged on.

Ok that's the road I am traveling too.
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If I wanted a productive bird, I would not care about tail angles, angle of back, lacing, etc.

Why can't we have both?
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Unfortunately, many exhibition breeders did not put any selection pressure on production, and many birds only look the part now.

Yes, it's the old fancy vs utility thang. C. J. Davies explained it so well in his " The Theory And Practice Of Breeding To Type".
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If breeding to the standard meant breeding for production, some show lines would be much more productive.

I agree. For dual purpose breeds, that's how it should be.
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[gojira]

You can have aesthetics and production in one bird, but, you won't have the best of either. The more things in your selection criteria, the more you have to cull. It might be very difficult to find the highest levels of each criterion in a given bird in any given generation. Plus, you have to keep many birds a long time when selecting for egg production. You also have to keep many males, because you want to use the full brothers of your most productive females in your program.

 

[3riverschick]

You can have aesthetics and production in one bird, but, you won't have the best of either.

It's one of the most frustrating things about dual purpose breeds. If I wasn't such a fan of both form and function, I could pick either in a breed and be Happy, smile. However, the beauty of the grace which appears when they are both melded correctly is a joy to the heart and a delight to behold. It just fills the eye and one just wants to keep looking and looking at it. Whatever the creation might be.
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The more things in your selection criteria, the more you have to cull. It might be very difficult to find the highest levels of each criterion in a given bird in any given generation. Plus, you have to keep many birds a long time when selecting for egg production.

It seems so. I need to find a faster way as I am already 65. I read of trapnesting (won't work here), Oscar Smart had great idea with his recording eggs laid from November thru February. I think that would work in a warmer climate. I am in Western PA. Then there is putting dye on the vent
Not accurate enough.
Then I read of a way to check hens each morning to feel them and see if there is a egg waiting to be laid
This has possibilities.
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You also have to keep many males, because you want to use the full brothers of your most productive females in your program.

How would you use them?
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I made a mistake above and corrected it. No BBR in LS. I checked back with Sharpe's, "The Sussex Fowl". He created the LS. He says only Brahma, Cochin, and Silver Grey Dorking.

 

[gojira]

You are going to be working with White Chanteclers, correct? At least they are a solid color, so that is less you have to be concerned about. My son wanted to get chickens five years ago, so I let him look at various breeds and varieties, so he chose Blue Cochin Large Fowl. We have to select on size, type, color, lacing, foot feathering, etc. I tend to be picky, so I think we average holding back one female per year. And that is starting with a great line.

As far as checking early in the morning to see if there is an egg on its way, you might have to get up super early, depending on when daylight ends for them. I remember picking up eggs every half hour beginning at 3 a.m. before. We were looking at time of day the egg was laid and weight, etc. I try to breed in trios, so most of the time I can know which egg came from which female based on size, shape, and color. That may be tougher in some cases.

You would use the males as you normally would. You could linebreed, inbreed, or cross to a similar productive line. It is easy to select females for egg production, but it is easy to forget that their full brothers potentially have equal genetics, especially after some selection.

 

[mrjoltcola]

Wow, this thread has really turned nasty in the last few days!!
Unsubscribing.

It seems to me that the thread has converted to a discussion about other breeds. I'd like to keep the topic on Leghorns and move Sussex or whatever to a different thread.

 

[The Moonshiner]

It seems to me that the thread has converted to a discussion about other breeds. I'd like to keep the topic on Leghorns and move Sussex or whatever to a different thread.

Ya
It sure has envolved some in the last few days but its only chicken talk.

 

[mrjoltcola]

Ya
It sure has envolved some in the last few days but its only chicken talk.

That didn't go over my head. Since I've never met you, I'm not sure how to take it. Aaaanyway... There is "on-topic chicken talk" that may be hard to follow, and then there is off-topic which should be in a new thread, in my opinion. In the spirit of quoting from past discourse, I'M having trouble following my own thread because the last 3 pages look like the Sussex thread.

 

[gojira]

I am not sure about this being turned into a Sussex thread. Sussex has been used as an example, but the things I have said can be used for all varieties of all breeds more or less. I guess I will go back to lurking.

 

[mrjoltcola]

I am not sure about this being turned into a Sussex thread. Sussex has been used as an example, but the things I have said can be used for all varieties of all breeds more or less. I guess I will go back to lurking.

Ok, if you feel it is related, I respect that. I just had a hard time following it. Maybe its because I scanned a good portion of it and should re-read. If others feel it is of relevant value, don't let me bully you out of the thread.