Mynah Bird Question.

[jak2002003]

Wow... I just came back to check on my thread and so many replies!!

I decided not to clip his wings as I realised that he does not use his beak to climb about like a parrot, so might get upset if he can't get about.

I have got a smaller cage. I put this to the door of his cage and he hops inside and I close the door and carry him to the house / patio so he can be next to me. He seems to like this.

To answer some of the points made by other posters.

1. He can not live inside the house... these birds are much more messy than a parrot.. they have massive watery sloppy poop that they produce at an unbelievable rate... I don't want my furniture / computer / carpet covered in sloppy bird poops.

2. Clipping a birds wings in a hot issue I am sure. But I have one parakeet which got a disease so his flight and tail feathers fell out. He lives in an aviary with my other 20 budgies and he is just as happy as the rest even through he can't fly. Also heavy breeds of chickens, ducks, domestic geese can't fly because of their weight, so should be stop breeding them too? Many birds that end up living on islands loose their ability to fly over time as they don't need to escape predators and can save energy on not flying. Are these birds stressed and not as happy because of this.. is that cruelty to them to have evolved not to fly?

Clipping a birds wings is NOT like tying a dogs legs together. That is cruelty.. the dog would not be able to move about or run, and its going to be very scared, and uncomfortable with the ropes. Clipping a birds wings is painless, like cutting out hair. It can still freely move about, and when done correctly the bird can still 'fly' enough to glide gently down to the floor if it jumps into the air.

3. My birds cage is 7ft X 3ft, X 4ft. I made it myself out of wood and green aviary mesh. Its got a mesh floor and pull out tray to keep it clean. It is tall and has an upper level in the roof space with nesting box and shelf, which he uses as his bedroom. He is not interested in toys, I tried bird toys, cat / dog toys etc, but he just ignores them. But he does love to bath, peel his own bananas and then carry the skins about and dunk them in his drinking bowl to make a 'soup' lol.

4. I have commercial mynah bird pellets which are easy to get here in Thailand. He also eats banana, papaya, kiwi fruit, apple, grapes and a few mealworms and crickets.

5. Poster Helloworld. Your birds look like the common mynah bird to me, not hill mynahs. We have a lot of them in our garden as they are native here... a pair is building a nest in the roof... they are a funny to watch, but are a bit of a pest and very noisy. They wake us up in the morning singing outside the window. He also have crested /white vented mynah birds too. They are very cute looking but a bit shyer of humans. I see huge flocks of them roosting in the tall bamboo of my neighbours house, and they are often perched on the backs of the cows and buffalos in the fields.

PS, I think my bird is much happier outside then inside. He has the fresh air, sunshine, stimulation to watch activity going on around him and other birds. He get the natural UV light from the sun too and gets the advantage to eat any bugs and insects then wander into his cage.

I'll get some photos of him and post them on here. I love him very much and he is so beautiful, when the light hits his feathers they are shiny purple and rainbow colours.

 

[Serin]

The parakeet which cannot fly due to disability is not comparable. Birds do adapt to disability. It is not humane to disable them on purpose. Birds that evolve a loss of flight over tens of millions of years are not equivalent either. Their behavior and their physiology change along with the gradual incremental changes to their form that results in loss of flight. These changes have not occurred in parrots or other companion birds which are still very much adapted to fly.

The analogy to tying a mammals legs together is totally appropriate. Doing so gently would not be painful but it would keep them slow and unable to escape which is what you want a clip to do to a bird. This comeback is always used and its not equivalent. A haircut does not render you unable to move freely. A haircut that left you only able to crawl on your knees would be like what a wing clip does to a bird. You'd still be able to move so its fine right?

Flightless breeds of domestic waterfowl are definitely not ideal for the birds health. All birds are adapted to fly. Parrots and other birds suffer emotionally, mentally and physically when clipped. Parrots normally fledge at a couple if months old and flying is shown to be an important part of brain maturation which if deprived results in more nervous, imbalanced birds whereas geese fly for the first time when older and months out of the nest, after cognitive development is almost complete. I'm not sure whether geese suffer as parrots do when deprived of flight. As they are naturally more terrestrial, they probably miss flight less than parrots do. They've also been bred for it over time, not had their feathers cut off.

Just put yourself in the bird's place and think if you would rather be able to fly or safe but only able to walk. I would rather be able to fly no matter how dangerous it is. And if you're a responsible pet owner, its not dangerous at all. Clipped birds still fly away in the wind and being unable to control their flight and having learned trying is pointless they end up in a tall tree and cannot come back down. They're much more vulnerable to dogs or cats wnd can't escape. They're prone to die of heart disease. And they become frustrated, depressed, and aggressive. In all my years, I have never seen a parrot pluck its feathers that was not either clipped or cage bound.

 

[ColtHandorf]

"All birds are adapted to fly."

All birds are not adapted to fly. There are many species that have adapted without flight. Most birds are adapted to fly would be a much more accurate statement that doesn't use exaggerations.

For those interested in learning just how many flightless species of birds we share the world with:

https://www.thespruce.com/why-some-birds-dont-fly-385428

@jak2002003 - I am glad that you decided not to clip his wings as it would have made locomotion difficult and frustrating for a bird that depends almost entirely on flight to navigate the world.

And I completely understand about the soft poo of softbills. I worked with Amethyst Starlings for a while, and they don't require quite as much soft food as Mynahs, but their feces was still very loose. It's one of the many reasons I've never wanted to bring Lories, Lorikeets, Toucans, Toucanettes, or Aracaris into my home despite their fascinating behavior and fun personalities. I've handfed several different Lories and fostered one and it was one of the most frustrating parts of keeping them at home.

If you do find he needs to be inside one thing I've found that helps some with the mess is to get one of the computer chair mats (big semi-hard plastic) and set the cage on top of it so that most of the mess is on that and not the floor. I've also seen people hang shower curtains behind softbill cages to protect the wall. Personally I think it looks tacky, but clear thin sheets of acylic mounted to the wall look much cleaner.

Good luck with the little guy. It sounds like you're off to a really good start with him.

 

[Serin]

"All birds are adapted to fly."

All birds are not adapted to fly. There are many species that have adapted without flight. Most birds are adapted to fly would be a much more accurate statement that doesn't use exaggerations.

For those interested in learning just how many flightless species of birds we share the world with:

https://www.thespruce.com/why-some-birds-dont-fly-385428

I study evolutionary biology, I know about the myriad of naturally flightless birds.
We do not keep any of them as house pets with regularity.
It is irrelevant to go down this tangent and it was irrelevant to specify any further when the discussion is clearly on what constitutes typical pet birds in the pet trade - namely parrots, softbills, finches, and doves - not ratites, not penguins, not the dodo or the great auk or the Stephen's island wren or the Takahe. The only parrot that doesn't need to fly to stay in good health is the kakapo, which has naturally adapted to a terrestrial niche over tens of millions of years.

 

[jak2002003]

I study evolutionary biology, I know about the myriad of naturally flightless birds.
We do not keep any of them as house pets with regularity.
It is irrelevant to go down this tangent and it was irrelevant to specify any further when the discussion is clearly on what constitutes typical pet birds in the pet trade - namely parrots, softbills, finches, and doves - not ratites, not penguins, not the dodo or the great auk or the Stephen's island wren or the Takahe. The only parrot that doesn't need to fly to stay in good health is the kakapo, which has naturally adapted to a terrestrial niche over tens of millions of years.

OK, thank you for your information. I get it you are against wing clipping birds. Also I am a zoology graduate so know something about evolution and birds too. I worked at a zoo for several years, and that included caring for a large collection of parrots. You might be interested to know that there is a species of parrot which is flightless... the Kakapo of New Zealand.
In my personal opinion wing clipping should be avoided in an ideal world. However, we don't live in an ideal world and keeping a bird as a pet is not natural. Sometimes its better for the bird and owner if the birds wings are clipped, depending on circumstances. Don't forget many people might say you are wrong to even keep a parrot or bird as a pet in your home as they should be flying freely in the wild.

 

[jak2002003]

I managed to get a few pics of him today. Here you go.....

 

[jak2002003]

And a quick video of him taking off and using his UNCLIPPED wings.

 

[Serin]

Don't forget many people might say you are wrong to even keep a parrot or bird as a pet in your home as they should be flying freely in the wild.

I would agree with them. There are a lot of rescue parrots which can't be returned to the wild, but they do not belong in pet homes and we should not be perpetuating the cycle. I keep domesticated birds that cannot survive outside human care and are well adapted to it.

I mentioned the kakapo in the post just above yours. Really cool birds... sadly very endangered.

Best of luck with your mynah bird.

 

[Starlings and dogs]

they are one of the kinds of birds that get most of their exercise from flying so I would highly suggest to NOT clip his/her wings

 

[shanlung]

I am not talking of Hill Mynahs in specific. But that being said, here was Jackie, my Greater Indian Hill Mynah, Gracula religiosa intermedia. A full grown and likely caught from the wild. Very feisty when he/she came to me and doing a recall within the month of coming to me.
(photo seen at bottom of this posting)


I just like to add some words to clipping of wings, especially to hook bills.
as extracted from what I wrote in Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/shanlung/posts/10157215092493421
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On clipping wings

Clipped birds lost outdoors will in almost all likelihood escaped with a death warrant tied to their clipped wings.
Do remember that whenever you reached for that scissors.

https://shanlung.livejournal.com/65601.html
Above extracted below

88888888888888888888888888888

On clipping wings

March 11th, 2007
I was recently taking part in various forums on the above.

I extract below what I wrote

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9 Mar 07

Folks,
Clipping of wings probably lead to loss of even more birds than knowing how to live with flighted birds.

People clip wings thinking that their bird will not fly away.

I honestly have nothing against the way people chose to keep their flock. No one should allow others to pressure them one way or other into any prescribed way.
They and only they alone must decide.

But they should know as much as they can , not relying on the word of anyone alone, less of all, not from me.

But to think that clipping of wings will meant bird will be safe is so unsafe that that is frightening to me.

Trimming wings is about the worse measure to try to stop birds from flying away.

In fright and with wind gust, clipped birds will , and can fly away.

By trimming feathers, you lull yourself into a false state of mind that all is safe. Then when the clipped bird fly away in fright up a tree, the very lack of those clipped feathers meant that bird cannot fly down to you again.

Those who live with flighted birds will know that flying down is one of the hardest act EVEN WITH ALL FEATHERS INTACT. Successful flying down from high points require much more skills than flying up in fright.

If you think clipping prevent unwanted escapes then read extracts below

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"
lost cockatiel 'Tory'
Lost cockatiel. Grey/yellowish pearl. Banded 03. ay come to 'Tory Bird'. Poor flier due to wing clipping. Email: [email protected]. White Lake, MI.

Our bird was lost on 11-23-03 in the area of St. Petersburg, Fl. In the region of OLD NORTHEAST. We are heart broken over it, any info that is given will be greatly helpful, wings are clipped and can't fly There is a reward out for the return of the bird , under one year old. Email: [email protected]. St Petersburg, FL.

Blue & Gold Macaw, Lost in Pembroke Pines, Fl Distinctive Forth black Line Under Eyes. Still Being Handfed. Wings Were Clipped First two Wing feathers Still On. Lost On Sept. 21. Reward If Found. Email: [email protected]. Pembroke Pines, FL.

My daughter and I are so sad because my husband went outside on
Saturday Feb. 24th at 3 o'clock and he had our little Mustached Parakeet. It's a female, and she was scared about the noise that my husband did with the trashcan, so she flew away.

We try to find her, we gave to the people some flyers and we put some
of them on the mail boxes, we look around our home where we thought that she can stay but anything happened. Our Parakeet Vet told us that she can't fly long distances because she has just 3 feathers on each side, she is missing 4 on each side.

She was living inside the house in a warm weather and now outside is
cold, the Vet thinks that she can survive outside but I don't know what we
can do. We are missing her a lot. Her head is light gray, she has
salmon-colored half breast, some of her tail feathers are turquoise, and some yellow on her wing feathers. We are living in Gilbert, Arizona.

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You should make your decision when you know clearly your intentions and the consequences .
Take a look into what Pamela Clark wrote. Read that and then you decide.

Feathers, Flight and Parrot Keeping
http://www.indonesian-parrot-project.org/Library/pam2.html

(I failed to find above link which was so well written. So go here to read https://blogpamelaclarkonline.com/2...3hd89kPSph6l1UGVBnUqznaAuYgiMnVX30NmZNMqJctG4)

11 Mar 07

In this bundled series of letters, I was talking about what I termed as the gyrodrop. That was in the
context of the mechanics of bird flights as to how they fly downwards. You can gauge how much I
know about the difficulties of birds flying downwards.
Feel free to dispute with me on what I wrote, if you have some such experiences.

About the end of that article, I suggest the best flight angle for you to
induce your clipped or unclipped bird to fly back to you if they are up a tree.

You never know one day you might need to use this.

An article from Part 1 Tinkerbell Early Period
http://shanlung.com/w6gyrodrop.html

tiny tiny extract
“From: shan lung <shanlung9@y...>
Date: Sun May 2, 2004 10:52 am
Subject: Gyro drop and Matrix movie

My wife kept telling me that if I mention mention that
movie Matrix to you folks, and if you have seen that
movie, you will know how that gyro drop was made by
Tinkerbell.

Since I have not seen that movie, I cannot say I
understand what Joy is talking about. That is nothing
new as most of the time I find her incomprehensible to
me.

She told me there was this scene of this woman in slow
motion suspended in a fetal position in mid air about
to kick some badass in the face.

So folks, I hope that is more intelligible to you. It
sure as hell is most un-intelligible to me. Maybe I
need to get that DVD to know what Joy is talking
about.

But I think I just like to go to enjoy the rest of my
Sunday outside with Tink.

Have a nice weekend

=====
With warmest regards

Shanlung
Joy - wife, Tinkerbell - CAG & surrogate daughter
“

Shanlung
http://shanlung.com/

And if above works for you and you are grateful,
send a nice cheque to Gerald Durrells Wildlife Trust

http://www.durrellwildlife.org/

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Continued couple weeks later with

More thoughts on wing clipping
http://shanlung.livejournal.com/66579.html

extract of above
More thoughts on wing clipping

March 30th, 2007
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editted on 12 Oct 2013 to add
The precursor to this is
On clipping wings written 11 Mar 2007 a couple of weeks before this
http://shanlung.livejournal.com/65601.html

That should be read as well
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A letter from
http://www.greyforums.net/forums/limitstart/30/african-grey/8152-wing-clipping.html

Dave is an old friend from another forum that I met again in greyforums recently as MrSpock.

MrSpock wrote:

Proper wing clipping will allow a bird horozontal movement and the ability to glide downward to a floor. The ideal wing clip is one that allows a bird to fly about 8 ft before gliding down.

Hi Dave,

In an ideal world, what you say above may be right.

The other extreme will be extremely severe clipping of wings. When I was in Riyadh and in a parrot shop, this grey jumped off the top of cage about 5 feet from ground. The sound of him hitting down, the spray of blood around him, and the screaming of that poor guy hurt me crazy. I do not wish ever to have another keel bone broken even if not in front of me.

People clipped for a few key reasons.

1. They had been conditioned to that because of what they read or were told. This seemed to be peculiarly American. Tinkerbell wings were so nearly clipped by me at the beginning as the books I read all recommended that (all American books) as well as forums in 2002 when I first had Tinkerbell. I was lucky enough to bought a British parrot mag to give me second thoughts.

2. The sight of initial flights, the crashing into walls was extremely frightening and I thought my precious Tink was crazy in trying to fly through walls while I stumbled about chasing her with a pillow to cushion her falls after hitting the wall. Once again, I so nearly reached for that scissors and Tink the flyig grey of Taiwan so nearly did not exist. But that british mag persuaded me to let that continue for a few more days.

She then found her flying skills to turn, slow, hover and stopped banging into walls.

Folks, this episode is inevitable. Your birds may be natural fliers, but even so, they MUST develope their muscles , flying skills and sense of balance. But at this early stage, their speed will be very slow(even if it appeared fast to you) and chances of harm to them will be there.

You can minimise this by letting them fledge in a small room, with curtains or rope nets around the walls for them to fly to and cling too. Or you can run around like me with a cushion.

If you see a human toddler trying to walk and falling down, will you have fear for his/her safety and not ever let him discover balance and walk? Will you have him/her crawl for the rest of their life because you are afraid to see them fall?

This is same as your choice for your bird.

3 By clipping wings and thinking thus the clipped bird will never fly away. I need not repeat my earlier postings of clipped birds that flown away.

In what Dave said , that is true in an ideal world. Unfortunately, we live in the real world.
But most people then went on to extrapolate that then, their bird will never be able to fly away. That is where I draw that line.

So after you got that 'perfect clip' and your parrot then fly about 8 feet and not gaining height. But again, have that clip been tested under worse case condition? Such as a sudden blast of air horn , or a strange hat thrust in front to see if that parrot cannot gain height in a spook situation?

Can you bear to do a sudden spook, or allow others to do that to your parrot? To see if that clipped wings hold good in spook conditions? And with Murphy at your elbows, how about throwing in that gust of wind at the same time?

Can you ever guarantee such conditions will never ever occur to you?

People had thought so. Their parrot paid heavier price than they did.
Your choice again to see if you can beat those odds.

On a different note Dave, I tried to log in to your old forum to let you and other friends there know about my last trip to be with Tink in Nov last year. If you did know, fine. If not, you might like to read this

Tinkerbell Interlude photoset and videos, and start of next chapter of life. Also as to why I am now here in Brisbane , down under.
http://shanlung.livejournal.com/65169.html

and from http://forums.avianavenue.com/index.php…
This is a most interesting thread.

From the polls, the majority of the birdies are kept flighted.
As also seen in similar polls in other birdie forums.

Below is a letter I wrote in another forum just a few days ago which I think has its place in this thread, especially in the poll which started this thread.
That was for a birdie Echo who flew away, and with a happy ending of being rescued.

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The strange part is that the BULK of escaping birdies were birdies with clipped wings , not fully flighted birdies.
Even more strange is that more birdies are kept fully flighted now, at least from the polls I seen.
Surely, shouldn't it be the other way? That more birdies that are fully flighted be lost instead of birdies that are clipped forming the bulk of lost birdies?

It is not the scissors that prevent unwanted escapees.
More often than not, that lead to undeserved complacency.

Consider how my saga with Riamfada started.
She was clipped, and assymetrically clipped on just one wing. A clipping designed to cause imbalance to birdie and about the worse of clipping.
She flew away and landed in a garden with very high walls around it to be rescued by a lady. She looked and asked around the entire neighbourhood. She was a very determined lady walking about the neighbourhood to find whose grey it was.

So it was likely Riamfada flew into her garden from a much further place.

She then gave her to my care.

So not only Riam flew far away with clipped wings, but flew high enough to get over a high wall.

I guess as Riam was a wild caught, she retained enough of her flying knowledge to overcome those clipping done on her.

And as birdies have clipped wings, that would make it almost impossible for them to fly down.

Flying down is a lot lot lot more difficult than flying up. And as clipped birds probably had never been allowed to fly at all, they do not know how
to turn and fly in any controlled way by them. Flying up is about all they can do.

That is the reality.
Not what most folks love to think.

But strangely, folks who clipped birdies and never known of them flying seemed to know so much more about
flighted birdies than I do. And so fond of asking one and all to reach for those scissors to crunch off those feathers on the wings.
Their one infallible solution to any and all problems.

It is ok for folks.
But its the lost birdies that will pay the price.

What chance have they got? Never knowing how to fly with control? Barely enough feathers to fly and no feathers for flight control?
Clipped birds lost outdoors will in almost all likelihood escaped with a death warrant tied to their clipped wings.
Do remember that whenever you reached for that scissors.

If Echo was clipped, instead of having all her feathers, Echo would not have been back and likely to have died instead.

Flighted birds, and birds knowing flight, lost outdoors will survive a lot better than birds clipped.

It is the knowledge and care and attention to details that keep your birdie safe with you.
Nothing else.
Think about it.
Go and clip and hope you beat the odds.

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and a follow up letter from me which hopefully can help those with escaped birdies.

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Needless to say, I am so happy you got Echo back!

I will not, and never will, wish even the worse villian on Earth be him Hitler or Osama or my ex mother in law , that they lost a birdie, especially a grey.

The pain and anguish is so incredible and impossible to bear that it defied words and description.

Now that you got Echo back, can you ever recall the pain and depth of despair that you had when you first saw Echo winging off?
Its just not possible now. That pain was too great and utterly impossible for you to replicate in your heart now with Echo's return.

As for Echo on top of tree and not flying down to you, I believe that you missed what I wrote on getting a lost birdie back. If you had, you might have saved yourself quite a bit of pain and gotten Echo back earlier. It is too long and too detailed to copy and paste here.

You should read it, as you never know if you ever need it again. After all, Murphy is everywhere.

Search & recovery of your lost birdie
shanlung: Angkor Wat & stuff// Wife to say hi to Domdom and Riamfada// Search & recovery of your lost birdie
http://shanlung.livejournal.com/124143.html