Necropsies

[tiffanyh]

Just a week? Threats and comment like that are uncalled for no matter who you are speaking to, IMHO.

Anyway,

I am so sorry about everyone's chicks. I have to agree with jkcove and Prissy. Keep an open mind. There are lots of diseases out there, some which may share symptoms. while speculation is good, the only way to KNOW is to have a necropsy..otherwise it is just that...speculation.

I hope everyone chicks are healthy from here on out.

 

[coopist]

Quote:
Okay, fair enough. I wasn't aware that it was a live vaccine. Certainly, with killed virus, one way it can be "bad" is to be live when it isn't supposed to be. Of course, if it's attenuated, then it can also be "bad" by being potent. All of this is good information.

 

[adoptedbyachicken]

Folks I have to say, and recall that I have been thought an outbreak, SPECULATION IS NOT GOOD. Don't write it , don't spread it, avoid reading it. You don't need to make this worse for yourself, you need to take a deep breath, get the right information and work through it.

Wait for facts. Get tests, listen the experts that will be tracking down the source, take the advice given by the State/Province you live in, abide the laws of disease control.

As I have said before we don't even know yet if we have an outbreak, and yet some are ripping at others throats in this, and blaming. None of that is productive.

 

[carousel]

As a person waiting to hear necropsy results, and having watched sick chicks for a week, wondering if the rest will get sick it weighs on you.
you no longer enjoy them, you just stare at them trying to figure out if they are starting to get sick.

I sure hope that there will be a way for suspsended people to post necropsy results.
My chicks are being done today, it will take awhile before I have more information.

Before my chicks got sick I really didn't understand
they were doing GREAT healthy, growing NORMAL until 2.5 weeks of age. When 1/2 the chicks of 1 breed starting 5 total chicks started showing problems (that was 1 week ago)

I hope everyone can hold it together, please people do not "stoke" the fire of people that are having trouble keeping their emotions in check.

those of us with sick chicks are checking this board often to learn results, not to see people scolding each other.

IF this turns out to be AE - I will then have to watch my rest the vet felt for at least another 2 weeks.

CS

 

[jkcove08]

One other thing that can happen with vaccines is if the company making them diluted them wrong and it is stronger then they were intended to be you will be giving a larger dose of live virus that in turn would infect the bird to the point of making it severly sick or death. Also if some vaccines are dead vaccines and were not killed properly they will cause the bird to get sick and potentially die. Also for stronger chicks they can then pass this virus for a certain period of time to weaker chicks that then also become ill. Bad vaccines do not always mean that they would be inafective against the virus, it can be the other way around. This doesnt happen to often but certainly can. Also other adatives in the vaccines could have been mixed wrong and would cause neuro problems too. There are many different adatives used to produce these vaccines and if a miscalculation was done when the final batch was mixed you could have many problems. These are usually caught by the R&D deparments but occasionally they can be missed. That is why it is best to try and have the individual groups of chicks tested to know for sure what is wrong with each persons order. I am certainly not saying it is any one thing. I just know from experience what it take to make vaccines and how something could go wrong. The simple fact that a PO worker could have just got done feeding his flock of chickens that were carriers of any virus could have then passed it to those shipments of chicks while handling the boxes first thing at work. Long shot of a senario but could have happened. Unfortunately the simple fact is that when all the tests come back and everyone knows what was the cause those chicks that died are still dead, the ones that are sick might recover and might not and MM will have gone over the 48 hr policy to offer credit or new chicks. They will be understanding to those who are polite and will do thier best to help but they are not going to say that they will give you tons of extra chicks for your loss or extra money or credit. This type of infection could happen to anyone, what if any of use that sell eggs suddenly have someone email us saying that the eggs we sent and they hatched into chicks are suddenly dying...... We would instantly think that it is something that they have done wrong since none of our chickens are sick. I do fertility checks but not on a constant basis. Then if that same person said that they want to take these chicks to the vet and have hundreds of dollars worth of test done to see what is wrong but wants you to pay for them you are going to say no way, Im not paying for that... Now some people asked MM to pay for these test to be done and were unhappy that they would not pay for them but if you are sending out hundreds of shipments a week and they all want you to pay for tests that adds up VERY quickly. This has been a learning experience for all of us that sometimes things out of our hands happen and we need to handle it as best as we can. Always be pleasant and nice and accept the replacements or credit. If you want more answers call your local ag departments and they should also be able to help you. I am getting chicks Saturday and I hope they are ok, if not then I will do the best I can. Jenn

 

[farm_mom]

Quote:
I couldn't agree more. Those of us with sick chicks are a frazzled lot. And no matter how many times those of you w/o sick chicks tell us "it could be a million different things" "chicks die" "it's cold" or "every single person here needs to a get a test" doesn't negate the fact that we all are going to choose a route that we see fit. I think there are enough people here with the same symptoms/signs/death rates that received their birds from the same place during the same time period that I feel comfortable accepting the outcome from a sample of our group's tests. I do. And that is my choice. You may not agree, you might possibly do things differently if you were in my place. Fair enough. Thank you for your opinion. Now please, allow me to have the freedom of my own without feeling belittled and attacked. Thank you.

 

[adoptedbyachicken]

Quote:
Wrong in this case! These chicks are NOT vaccinated for AE, no chicks ever are. The breeder flock MAY have been, but the timeing of that vaccine prevents any chance of transmission to chicks as the pullets would not be laying yet.

Again we need to listen to the experts and give them the time it takes to track down the source.

What your saying is true of some vaccines in some cases, but impossible with this one. Hang in there, again speculation is not good.....

 

[carousel]

Also
I have been in touch with MM
they were very good, I told them my plan to take them to the vet, they told me to let them know what we find and they will credit/refund for the chicks I have lost.
The vet also said she would contact MM for me or give me results into to share with MM.
Again, taking deep breath and WAITING.
CS

 

[adoptedbyachicken]

Carousel and farm_mom I just want you to know I very strongly remember the feeling. It's been years and it could have been yesterday. Please take care of yourself in all this. It is stressful. If you need to talk send me a PM.

I will do all I can to make sure that all test results get posted, even from those who unfortunatly can't keep the calm or follow the rules. It is important to know what the rest of the tests are.

Please consider that if this continues to be AE (or something else) and you have sick chicks you can turn to your state/Province and have them tested for free, and they can guide you in your choices to keep or to cull. Your right, no one here can or should tell you what to do or belittle you for your choice.

 

[farm_mom]

Thank you April for your kind words and great advice. I really appreciate it.