Necropsy Pictures - Another Case of a Cystic Oviduct?

[jlwquilter]

So does it seem Lily did have persistent right cystic oviduct? What about the possible tumors? And the condition of the lungs?

Thanks for looking at the pictures and helping me learn from this rather upsetting situation.

 

[Tesumph]

I’m sorry for your loss.
I’m still learning but this is what I see.. can’t say I’m much help, but I’m interested to see what others have to say.

To my knowledge there are three neoplastic avian diseases (they cause tumors): Marek’s, avian leukosis, and reticuloendotheliosis. They all have similar characteristics and can be difficult to differentiate by necropsy.
One of the ways you can sometimes tell them apart is whether or not the bursa is atrophied or has tumors. I can’t really tell from your photos which is the case.
I was under the impression that these viruses almost always cause an enlarged liver, but her’s looks like a normal size to me..

The globs and nodules throughout her organs are tumors.
The large fluid filled sac looks like ascites, I think, or maybe a huge cystadenoma. I’m not really sure.

Are these birds just dropping dead or are there symptoms in your flock? Any lameness?

 

[pennyJo1960]

I would agree they do appear to be tumors fibrosis possible liver looked enlarged

 

[Sequel]

Gosh I wish I knew how to help you there but I don't. Thank you for posting your pics, my hat is off to both of you for doing the necropsy! Every time I think I'm learning so much here I'm reminded how little I still know. I hope you have some smooth sailing for a while now, you've had a rough go!

 

[Wyorp Rock]

With Lily, who died a few days ago, we were able to do a necropsy. Honestly her death was very hard on both me and my husband (she was a particular favorite) and neither of us wanted to do the necropsy but we also felt it was the best thing to do. So we sucked it up and did it. Sigh.

Basically Lily had a HUGE sac of fluid in her abdomen. Her lungs were also in bad shape

Petunia’s necropsy thread I’m thinking Lily also had persistent right cystic oviduct issue. It seems that this can be a side effect/result of having infectious bronchitis (IB). We did have a bad case of respiratory illness in May. Also 2 weeks ago some of the the hens did start sneezing and coughing a bit. I treated with denegard but should have treated earlier as a preventative and faster when the sneezing started. Things got better after the denagard but a few days ago I heard some sneezes and coughs and the leghorns had dirty nares so they all just got tylan treatments.

I'm sorry for your loss Thank you for taking the time for the photos, maybe we can all learn something from one another.

Hopefully @Eggcessive @coach723 @casportpony and @dawg53 will chime in with their thoughts.

In my limited knowledge and research - comparison to photos I have seen, I would agree that it could be Cystic Oviduct in one of your photos. The ovaries also look "unwell" for the lack of better term on my part - I'm not a vet nor an expert.
I do feel that you may have more than one thing going on - the tumors can be from another disease like Marek's or LL, hard to know unless you send a body in for a formal necropsy at your state lab. A lot of times there is an underlying disease that contributes to the decline of overall health.

I'm sorry that you are dealing with this. If I remember correctly, just starting out, you encountered having to figure out what to do with sick birds right off the bat as a new chicken owner. I'm sure it's been heartbreaking at times. Infectious Bronchitis (as with most all other respiratory diseases) do impact the reproductive system/production in one way or another. You mention they seem to respond/get a little better when you use Denagard. Denagard is specifically used to treat Mycoplasma, it does not treat IB so you may have both, which is not uncommon with these diseases. Again, without testing, you don't know exactly what you are dealing with. If the Denagard makes a big difference, then I would suggest you get the flock on Denagard (as is intended) once a month for 3 days in a row as a "maintenance" to help control symptoms. As you know, it's not a cure and won't prevent any of these tumors, cancer, cystic oviduct, etc. but it may help to reduce overall symptoms and help your flock over time to become healthier instead of them having to fight relapses all the time.

 

[Eggcessive]

Kudos for doing the necropsy and posting pictures. Sorry about your hen. Your hen had oviduct cancer that appears to have spread through her body to liver and elsewhere. The fluid sac does look like a persistent right oviduct, and those contain clear colorless fluid. It is common with hens who have had IB in the past. But hens with cancer can also have ascites, which is yellow fluid, and that leaks out when the abdomen is opened.

 

[casportpony]

Are these tumors? They were very hard. I don’t recall seeing them in Petunia’s necropsy

Very sorry for your losses. Those look like tumors to me.

 

[Eggcessive]

A necropsy done by the state vet could identify the type of cancer or tumors in the chicken, and also determine where it started. There can be a number of different types of tumors, and some can be caused by certain viruses, while others are not virus-related. Adenocarcinoma is a common type of oviduct cancer in chickens. Lymphomas can be due to Mareks or leukosis viruses. Sarcomas are another thpe of tumor in chickens. Here is a good picture of the different cancers of the oviduct in chickens—just click on the picture to enlarge and you can move from pic to pic:

 

[Tesumph]

Cystic oviduct.. duh! I apologize for skimming over your flock’s history. I’ve caught up now on your previous posts.

Although I do think that this is a lot of widespread tumors to “just” be ovarian cancer. Just a thought.
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poul...oplasia-of-the-reproductive-system-in-poultry

I’m so sorry you’ve had such a rough go of things in your flock.

 

[jlwquilter]

Hi. Thank you each and every one for your replies and insight.

I think I have to just accept that Marek's is active in my flock. There was another hen that died a couple of months ago that I never posted about as we were leaving that day for a week, we culled her that morning after debating what to do (taking her with us almost happened!) as she seemed even a bit worse, and I didn't take pictures of the quick necropsy we did. It even slipped my mind when posting this thread or I would have mentioned it as well.

Anyway, Sicilia exhibited the classic Marek's symptoms I just read about. Lameness, inability to 'connect' with food, spasms (she would literally do a somersault). When we opened her up she had fluid in her abdominal cavity - not a lot, but definitely some. Dark amber to light red in color I recall. Neither Petunia nor Lily had 'loose fluid' - both only had fluid in the sac. I don't recall seeing tumors but I don't think I would have even noticed given the situation and how rushed everything was, combined with lack of knowledge of what to look for or what I saw meant.

From what I've read Marek's is ubiquitous. Most flocks have it, symptoms or not. What I haven't seen mentioned in the articles I've read is if Marek's kind of lurks and then pounces when a stress factor hits the hen... does anyone know if that's how it operates? Or is it there and for 'no reason' just decided that day to become 'active'? What I trying to get at is it's in my flock... why aren't they ALL dead? Why is it one hen then several weeks later another hen and then more weeks later another one goes down? They've all been exposed to the same stuff for the same amount of time. give or take a week or 2 - I got them all within a short window of time. It is the older hens that are dying first.... maybe that's what's happening? The young hens are better able to 'fight it off'/have some level of resistance?

My husband and I spent a lot of time today discussing what we're going to do. We decided to see what happens over the next month. Starting in early November things get very busy for us and I may simply not be able to manage hens dying so quickly close together of something I can't do anything about. At some point it ceases to be fun to have them under those circumstances. It's stressful for me and I assume to them as well at some level. The time between deaths has been shortening. Maybe that's because of stress due to molting? Or a flare up of the respiratory illness triggered it (which I will now stay on top of with the monthly denegard and tylan only if denegard isn't kicking the symptoms ie: it's IB not MG). Wait, I take that back - no molting was happening when Sicilia and the the 2 light Bramahs died and none of them ever went broody. Hmmm... I'm looking for a trigger but I guess I'm not seeing that a trigger is necessary to suddenly cause a death.

Balancing this all off is the fact that my hens seem 'happy' and lay their vents off - LOL! How can they be dying at any moment and I still get 13, 14, 15 eggs a day from them?! Marek's doesn't seem to be effecting them until it becomes 'active' and then it's generally been a quick demise.

MG vs IB - is there a way to tell them apart faster, easier? Currently none of the hens have any mouth or throat lesions. I check for that every week (as well as pupil changes, crops, swollen feather follicles, leg scales raised, vent discharge, bumblefoot, general coloring and demeanor). Even if Marek's takes them all out eventually, I want to treat any issues quickly and keep them as healthy as I can.

Wow. This is a post and a half! I really have been trying to figure this out and figure out a path forward that makes sense for me and the hens. I appreciate any and all thoughts on this!