Necropsy prelim. results

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ReikiStar, you bring up a real good point about , let's say hatching some eggs in the bator or getting day old chicks, and biosecurity when Marek's is already on your premises.

I had figured it was the best to hatch and quarantine the chicks in my bathroom. BUT, I had my first 2 sick chicks in there for a week! Okay, so I'll scrub the bathroom real good. However, after being with my chickens (2-3 times a day), I usually toss my clothes in the hamper in the bathroom!!!! Not to mention my hair!!! This is going to be harder than I thought.

My son in law will be using the spare room (untouched by virus), I wonder how he'll feel sharing the room with a brooder of chicks???
Maybe I will have to gown glove and hat to visit the chicks. Now, what about hubby who likes chickens as well?????
 
Karen, don't make yourself crazy.
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I know you've been slammed by this stupid virus and I am humbled by what you've been through.
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Definitely clean any areas best you can and then...breathe.

At the time we had our Mareks bird in the house, we didn't know what it was. She was a recent rescue who was skinny and after 3 weeks (I tried to let them settle in) we found she was infested with lice. Brought her into the house to bathe (with the other two who came with her) while we had day olds brooding in the next room. Cleaned up the Mareks bird and the very next day she started to have a little stumble, then a wing droop. First we thought she was over run with worms (never saw any) or the lice were so bad it had made her anemic. I wish that had been the case. We started to hand feed her outside. Eventually, she wouldn't even stand up. So she started living in a big dog crate in our kitchen, the brooder room was down the hall. This was January and we have forced air heating. So her air was being circulated throughout the house. Once it was all said and done, I shared this with the two vets we dealt with.

Both said: 1) YES! our chicks in the house were exposed. All but two chicks were from hatcheries and were vaccinated. Two were locally bred and were not vaccinated. They are now a handsome & strong lot of 20 week olds.

2) That the two chickens who arrived with her and our one hen who eventually moved in with the other two immediately after we brought the Marek chicken in....all MUST have immunity as (count my blessings) are all fine. In fact, the health of the other two improved! (sorry if that was confusing. We had one house chicken -- a neighbor's hen that decided we were cooler, and she's right. And two hens who were rescued along with the Mareks bird. They had all been living with or were exposed to Mareks bird -- her name was Liz.
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I miss her every day. You get so close to them going through this nightmare.)

For me, we've chosen not to vaccinate. I'm just not up to giving the shot to any new chicks we will hatch and worrying about are the chicks exposed within their first 10 days (I'm not perfect, the dogs are exposed to the chickens, they come in the house, they touch the cats, the cats sneak into the brooder room when we go in, etc.). I'd be doing the same things I'm doing now (biosecurity as in handling the chicks before I work with the older birds, keeping the ages apart, etc). Plus, since we're breeding for our own pleasure and I'm a total sucker, ALL roos have a home here, we're a happily closed flock.

So I'm sorry I can't help anyone who plans to vaccinate. You almost need a "clean room" that has it's own air system and where you take Silkwood showers before you enter to know nothing came in with you (I hear germs can hide in the folds of your ears!). We're looking at the gradual, minute exposure our new chicks must be getting and keeping their stress down as the gradual development of immunity.

I hope knowing how much our chicks were exposed bring some relief. Also, you should know, those birds we rescued came to us by way of the feed store. Of course I kept them posted and they notified the people dealing with the rescue. Since that time they have literally sold over 15,000 chicks (they bragged about it on FB) and continue to get and sell adult birds (chickens, peafowl, ducks, turkeys). So 1) I haven't heard of them having any problems. 2) So if Mareks was at this place, and they get vaccinated chicks...haven't the chicks been exposed before the 10 days are up? I think there is no way to be 100% away from this virus. Just good flock management, supportive nutrition like herbs and ACV and knowing all you can is the best defense we have.
 
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Okay, okay, I'll calm down. I'll just do what I can. I don't know why some get it and some don't. I had 3 chicks that were raised together-and one died at 6 months, and one at 9 months. The third is healthy and doing his duty.

Why did 1 silkie get it and 4 silkies with him did not? There is no rhyme or reason to this disease.
The hatches I've had over the last few years, I think one died from each hatch. Those hatches were not mixed into the flock till they were 12-16 weeks old. Before that they were separate, but close to the flock.

These 7/10 chicks had absolute direct contact at hatch,

Maybe someone has a point about real slow exposure with unvaccinated chicks.

I must be a total sucker too. I have a very hard time rehoming roos. And now it won't be happening. I'll have to build another bachelor pad.
 
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Yes, everyone has been giving great advice and I appreciate every single response.
Karen, I can not imagine what you are going through since I am on such a smaller level with only 14, well now 13 chickens here. I did read somehwere that roos tend to be more resistant to the virus... I think I read that you had some roos survive where the hens with them did not, was that right? I had a roo with Pixie the entire time she was showing symptoms (because I was clueless for a while) and he is fine. But, all of the girls were together in the beginning, so they were all obviously exposed, either by Pixie (if she already had it) or the same way she was exposed (if it's on the property, etc).
Here's hoping with the proper actions we can try to contain this and move on with no further symptoms creeping up on us. I'm looking forward to either bator or broody hatching some of my own eggs (since the decision was made for me to keep Rudy, my roo;)) next year if all goes well. Let's hope that resistance is passed on to the babies.
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Thanks to Karen's mention of this, I have a temporary "bachelor pad" for Rudy, since my girls don't like him at the moment. Now I feel bad that he's lonely, though. Hopefully once they all get a little older and he's a nice, handsome, big roo I can get him back in with the girls.
Thanks again for all the support everyone. This experience was awful, but at least I've been able to learn from those of you willing to share with me.
 
Alison, you are surely going thru your own private he11 as I. I think we both get real attached to these birds.
I had to put a roo in a bachelor pad months ago, and he ended up with 2 hens, one was picking on my Polish, and the other was mean to everybody. First time I've had a mean hen!
 
Hi there,

I haven't read through all of the replies. So, I am sorry if I repeat anything someone has already said. Last year I had a similar experience. In my small backyard flock of 7 pullets, I lost three to Marek's. I also sent them in to UC Davis for necropsy. While I was going through this, I found out a lot about the virus.

One: the virus is in the herpes family and the vaccine is actually derived from the turkey herpes virus (someone mentioned keeping chickens with turkeys to boost immunity, I believe this is similar to the vax) which is why it will not make healthy birds sick BUT unvaccinated birds can "catch" the vaccine and help their immunity. The idea for the vaccine was similar to the story of the way the smallpox vaccine was discovered (cowpox virus is used for the smallpox vax). The virus is similar to the HPV virus in the sense that the virus causes the formation of tumors which are in turn the cause of death in the birds. The vaccine does not prevent infection from the Marek's virus but it stops the formation of the tumors which cause death.

Two: Once your flock becomes infected with the virus, they will always be infected. They can also be infected with multiple forms or mutations of the virus, some being more dangerous than others. The virus is shed through feces, saliva and feather dander. The dander can be carried on the wind and the virus can be transferred by wild birds and other animals that have only come in contact with an infected bird or even just an area close to one. Your birds are now "carriers" and you can no longer introduce unvaccinated, ADULT birds to your flock for the safety of the new birds. BUT you can introduce chicks that have been vaccinated; although they should be kept separate until 4-5mo of age.

My flock are carriers too and their numbers have grown quite a bit since that time. I have raised healthy day old chicks (which I vaccinated myself) and have also had a carrier broody hatch out a clutch of healthy little chicks (which I also vaccinated myself as day olds). They are all doing wonderful and their eggs are just fine to eat. In fact, the virus is not transfered through the eggs and you can hatch out chicks laid by a carrier flock and you would still need to vaccinate them.

All hope is not lost. I have had vets tell me that "If you have chickens, you most likely have Marek's of some form". It's just a matter of what strain. It's a hard thing to go through but you live and learn. Enjoy your girls, the ones that pull through will have the strongest form of immunity possible.
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