Necropsy results: Fatty Liver

[Dynamissa]

My 20 week pullet died of a fatty liver.

She was on a 20% /18% protein feed with some oyster shell supplemented and a little bit of scratch now and again…

The vet at cornell suggested a 14% protein feed and no treats or anything for the foreseeable future…

I was floored and now I’m scared for the rest of my flock. I always saw high protein lauded … but I guess it’s key that they cannot free range (not allowed here) they have to be on a low energy diet in general and that includes protein.

… will this help my other babies or is it too late?

I feel terrible… these are my daughter’s birds, she’s 5.

 

[WingItRanch]

My 20 week pullet died of a fatty liver.

She was on a 20% /18% protein feed with some oyster shell supplemented and a little bit of scratch now and again…

The vet at cornell suggested a 14% protein feed and no treats or anything for the foreseeable future…

I was floored and now I’m scared for the rest of my flock. I always saw high protein lauded … but I guess it’s key that they cannot free range (not allowed here) they have to be on a low energy diet in general and that includes protein.

… will this help my other babies or is it too late?

I feel terrible… these are my daughter’s birds, she’s 5.

I'm so sorry for you loss. This had be concerned so I did a quick search and I'm finding conflicting information saying that a fatty liver is caused by low protein, high energy diets. Not a high protein diet. Maybe others will have some insight.

 

[SourRoses]

Vets have very poor training in animal nutrition across all species.
There's not even such a thing as a 14% protein feed formulated for chickens.
The very well studied industry bare minimum is 16%.

Protein doesn't make fat in chickens.
Fat makes fat.
Most feeds contain a maximum of 4% fat. Scratch is significantly higher in fat. As are bugs, grass, and many other treats.

If you cut something, cut out scratch and treats. That said, we generally recommend keeping it less than 10% rather than zero.
In some cases, chickens just have different genetics for fat storage. Yours may have been predisposed.
Just like some horses can get fat on hay and some are all bones on sweet feed diets.

 

[Dynamissa]

Vets have very poor training in animal nutrition across all species.
There's not even such a thing as a 14% protein feed formulated for chickens.
The very well studied industry bare minimum is 16%.

Protein doesn't make fat in chickens.
Fat makes fat.
Most feeds contain a maximum of 4% fat. Scratch is significantly higher in fat. As are bugs, grass, and many other treats.

If you cut something, cut out scratch and treats. That said, we generally recommend keeping it less than 10% rather than zero.
In some cases, chickens just have different genetics for fat storage. Yours may have been predisposed.
Just like some horses can get fat on hay and some are all bones on sweet feed diets.

I’m hoping it was something genetic - she was strange, started laying at 14.5 weeks, we were all convinced she was a rooster by 8 weeks her comb and wattles were already coming in so something was up with her hormones I’d imagine.

I just want to do what I can to give the others the best chance after this… they suggested limiting feed - in not even sure how I’d do this? What times would I put it out, etc? Ugh, I felt so confident before this, it really screwed me up.

 

[Susan Skylark]

How was fatty liver diagnosed? Mammalian livers should look like liver but bird livers can be tan or yellow and be normal. High protein is fine, high fat or carbs not so much. Also usually the result of metabolic imbalance (diabetes, pregnancy, ketosis). Get a second opinion before changing feed!

 

[Dynamissa]

How was fatty liver diagnosed? Mammalian livers should look like liver but bird livers can be tan or yellow and be normal. High protein is fine, high fat or carbs not so much. Also usually the result of metabolic imbalance (diabetes, pregnancy, ketosis). Get a second opinion before changing feed!

She said it ruptured. My girl was normal to dead in 2 hours.

 

[SourRoses]

I’m hoping it was something genetic - she was strange, started laying at 14.5 weeks, we were all convinced she was a rooster by 8 weeks her comb and wattles were already coming in so something was up with her hormones I’d imagine.

I just want to do what I can to give the others the best chance after this… they suggested limiting feed - in not even sure how I’d do this? What times would I put it out, etc? Ugh, I felt so confident before this, it really screwed me up.

Wow, she does sound unusual! I would put it down to genetics in that case for sure.

I understand how concerning it is when a trusted medical expert gives advice. In many areas they have the greater knowledge, but they simply don't get any courses on nutrition in vet school. What they receive is offers for "seminar" weekends sponsored by pet food brands. Have you ever walked into a vets office and seen the display of Purina One and/or Iams dog & cat food? Those things are packed with species inappropriate grains and other poor ingredients but some vets give you the heavy sell on using them.

I recommend, just like many on the forum here will, feeding a decent quality low fat high protein feed. A lot of us feed 20% All Flock or Grower (usually the same thing).
Avoid scratch and treats for the foreseeable future to give you peace of mind that you did the best you could. Hopefully the others all have better genetics, depending on relatedness.

 

[Dynamissa]

I’m hoping that’s the case and I have some time to turn it around for the others…
Here’s what she looked like at 8 weeks

 

[Sic]

My 20 week pullet died of a fatty liver.

She was on a 20% /18% protein feed with some oyster shell supplemented and a little bit of scratch now and again…

The vet at cornell suggested a 14% protein feed and no treats or anything for the foreseeable future…

I was floored and now I’m scared for the rest of my flock. I always saw high protein lauded … but I guess it’s key that they cannot free range (not allowed here) they have to be on a low energy diet in general and that includes protein.

… will this help my other babies or is it too late?

I feel terrible… these are my daughter’s birds, she’s 5.

So sorry about your young pullet..
Lowering the protein just doesn't make sense... Fatty Liver Hemorrhagic Syndrome(FLHS) is probably one of the leading causes of sudden death in backyard chickens. Protein should be above 17.5%, just cut out all the scratch and any other 'treats'

 

[My Very First 6 Chickens]

I’m hoping that’s the case and I have some time to turn it around for the others…
Here’s what she looked like at 8 weeks

I’m sorry you went through all this. I was told by a person that works for the CT veterinary medical diagnostic lab that fatty liver is the number one cause of death in CT chickens anyway. Once i learned that, i literally structure their lives to be sure to get exercise at least twice a day. I take them for walks. I love when they run and I love more when they dig to china. swing those hips girls. I think my hens are probably overweight, but, I’m certainly not about to cut protein. protein is everything in our little chicken world. your case does seem genetic. Stay tough cause your doin’ your best. If you can get them some supervised free range, even putting a little playpen in a new location so they scratch scratch scratch! my girls dont really scratch at all in the run. Good luck with everything.