Need advice! Ascites and prolapsed vent? But what's this sac?

[SunshineAnShade]

Hi everyone, I need help! My Easter Eggers Rainbow has developed what I believe is ascites and prolapsed vent a few days ago. This developed a few days after the flock was let out for the morning and a fox attacked! It killed one, then 2 more died over 2 days. I could tell it tried to get Rainbow but all I could see was a few feathers missing from her belly and she had a slight limp but was otherwise fine. A day or so later I noticed she felt a little squishier than normal but didn't know what it was. The next day her vent was bulging out with a huge sac of fluid hanging out of it. She's been in my bathtub for a few days as I have been cleaning and treating her. She has good appetite and drinking water. I drained the sac. It was mostly clear fluid with a few globulous chunks. I've been trying to holdhold her vent back in place but it keeps popping out. I feel like thethe sac isn't supposed to be there? But I don't want to remove it.... She still has some fluid in her abdomen that I plan to drain more of. She looks much better than she had. I don't have before pictures but I will post what she looks like now. The sac is such smaller than it had been. Any advice is appreciated

 

[SunshineAnShade]

20cc of opaque fluid from around vent

 

[rebrascora]

Hi

I'm so sorry to hear of the problems you have been having. Fox attacks are very upsetting and once it happens they will continue coming until you pen your girls up. I used to love to free range my flock, but I have eventually had t pen them in order to keep them alive. The fox was even coming when I was there during the day and snatching one.
As regards your girl with the prolapse, it is difficult to make out but does she have a separate wound below her vent that the tongue like tissue is coming out of or is it all just hanging out of her vent. If the latter, it would appear that you are dealing with a rupture as well as a prolapse. The combination of a prolapse and ascites and the yellow colour of her skin would suggest that she may be suffering from Fatty Liver Haemorrhagic Syndrome and perhaps the stress of the fox attack has caused a major haemorrhage and resulted in the ascites or the strain of pushing an egg out and the prolapse has caused the rupture. You really need to keep that tissue as clean as possible (not easy I know in that location) and moist to prevent it from becoming necrotic. Raw Honey or Prep H are often used or triple antibiotic ointment. If it is coming out of a hole below her vent it suggests that her abdominal cavity has been breached and that may well be her lower intestine herniated out. I think you are unlikely to be able to put it back in and keep it there without surgery and the concern would be that infection would set in even if you do manage to get it to stay in because it will be contaminated with faeces. Veterinary assistance would be advised.
If it is all just hanging out of her vent, then it is one of the most substantial prolapses I have ever seen. The only hope is to gently keep trying to push it back in and hold it there. Use copious amounts of Preparation H to try to reduce the swelling and keep it moist. It may take days or even weeks to resolve but it is very severe and my thoughts are that she will probably not survive.
Veterinary assistance would be appropriate if your finances run to that (personally mine don't) and if she starts to look dull and go off her food, it might be kinder to euthanize her but do keep trying as long as she is looking bright and eating.

Out of interest, what do you feed your flock? I'm wondering if they get corn or scratch as these can cause Fatty Liver Haemorrhagic Syndrome particularly if you are treating them every day and are perhaps being too generous with them. Reassessing your flocks diet is always a good idea when you get an ailment like this. It may be unrelated and I may be wrong about it being Fatty Liver but always a good idea to look at the treats you give your flock and decide whether they are healthy and if you need to cut back on them.

I wish you lots of luck with her. Please keep us posted with her progress. Will be keeping my fingers crossed that I am wrong and she pulls through.

 

[Eggcessive]

I believe that Rebrascora is correct that your chicken’s large intestines are coming out the hole under her vent. I would put her down right away because she will not survive that. In some severe prolapses the intestines can come out the prolapse, and those hens do not survive treatment. In your case, it looks like she had a wound under the vent that the intestines came out through. So sorry.

 

[SunshineAnShade]

Hi

I'm so sorry to hear of the problems you have been having. Fox attacks are very upsetting and once it happens they will continue coming until you pen your girls up. I used to love to free range my flock, but I have eventually had t pen them in order to keep them alive. The fox was even coming when I was there during the day and snatching one.
As regards your girl with the prolapse, it is difficult to make out but does she have a separate wound below her vent that the tongue like tissue is coming out of or is it all just hanging out of her vent. If the latter, it would appear that you are dealing with a rupture as well as a prolapse. The combination of a prolapse and ascites and the yellow colour of her skin would suggest that she may be suffering from Fatty Liver Haemorrhagic Syndrome and perhaps the stress of the fox attack has caused a major haemorrhage and resulted in the ascites or the strain of pushing an egg out and the prolapse has caused the rupture. You really need to keep that tissue as clean as possible (not easy I know in that location) and moist to prevent it from becoming necrotic. Raw Honey or Prep H are often used or triple antibiotic ointment. If it is coming out of a hole below her vent it suggests that her abdominal cavity has been breached and that may well be her lower intestine herniated out. I think you are unlikely to be able to put it back in and keep it there without surgery and the concern would be that infection would set in even if you do manage to get it to stay in because it will be contaminated with faeces. Veterinary assistance would be advised.
If it is all just hanging out of her vent, then it is one of the most substantial prolapses I have ever seen. The only hope is to gently keep trying to push it back in and hold it there. Use copious amounts of Preparation H to try to reduce the swelling and keep it moist. It may take days or even weeks to resolve but it is very severe and my thoughts are that she will probably not survive.
Veterinary assistance would be appropriate if your finances run to that (personally mine don't) and if she starts to look dull and go off her food, it might be kinder to euthanize her but do keep trying as long as she is looking bright and eating.

Out of interest, what do you feed your flock? I'm wondering if they get corn or scratch as these can cause Fatty Liver Haemorrhagic Syndrome particularly if you are treating them every day and are perhaps being too generous with them. Reassessing your flocks diet is always a good idea when you get an ailment like this. It may be unrelated and I may be wrong about it being Fatty Liver but always a good idea to look at the treats you give your flock and decide whether they are healthy and if you need to cut back on them.

I wish you lots of luck with her. Please keep us posted with her progress. Will be keeping my fingers crossed that I am wrong and she pulls through.

Thank you for replying rebrascora.
I will try doing some research on fatty liver.
I occasionally do treat my chickens with scratch but not every day and only a handful at a time. I hadn't given them any for a while but once they were locked up to protect them from the fox, I did give some to them to occupy them. I wouldn't have considered it excessive though.
As for the prolapse, the sac is hanging from out of the vent. It was originally a large fluid sac which I drained. It didn't appear to be a wound since she didn't have any bites or blood.... When I push her vent back in, the empty sac goes with it. I don't believe it's intestine. There was no fecal matter coming from it when I drained it . Only clear fluid and a few opaque globs of goo. I've been soaking and washing her hind end every day. The sac feels like it is starting to harden so I will soak it again and apply some prep h then maybe petroleum jelly or coconut oil to soften it.
She doesn't appear to be distressed She is eating and drinking pretty well and pooping.
In my research about vent prolapse, it was suggested to minimize protein and offer corn. I wasn't sure about that though. I've been giving her her regular organic mash. I can't remember the name of it. I get bags of it from my other chicken friend.
I added a few tablespoons of scratch to that. She hasn't been eating too much of it though. She preferred the lettuce. I will take the mixed feed away just in case the corn is the issue. I would feel awful if it is!
I unfortunately don't have the resources for a vet. But I will continue to care for her and give her a chance.
I don't want her to suffer but she seems to be doing ok right now. Thank you! Your insight is much appreciated!

 

[rebrascora]

Hi again
What does your regular feed look like? Is it a grain mix/mash where you can see individual components of the feed or is it an homogenous processed pellet or crumble? If it is the former, how do you feed it? ie do you scatter it on the ground or feed it in an ad lib feeder? If the latter then it may be your feed that is causing this issue, rather than treats like scratch, although adding even a small amount of scratch to their diet will aggravate the problem even though not on a daily basis.

Chickens can identify and pick up tiny specks that we can barely see. If you feed a mash or whole grain feed, they can very easily pick out and eat their favourite bits and not get a balanced diet.... they are effectively choosing to eat scratch every day, since it is usually the higher carbohydrate grains that are favoured over the more nutritious and high protein pulses and of course the fines which contain the added essential trace elements (including calcium) and vitamins and amino acids are often wasted or left in the bottom of the feeder. The hens will also often bill the feed onto the ground in order to find their favourite bits and leave the rest for less dominant birds or rats to clear up or go mouldy under the feeder. I am told that fermenting these feeds makes the birds more likely to get a balanced diet and I am personally in favour of fermenting feed, so that might be something to consider if you don't do that already and want to continue with this type of feed, assuming I am understanding your use of the term "regular organic mash" correctly.

I prefer to reduce their exposure to light to help shut down their egg production rather than reduce their protein intake. Keeping them in a dark place until lunchtime should work. If thy are already carrying too much fat, reducing their protein intake which pretty much means increasing their carbs, especially whilst they are convalescing with an injury that needs tissue repair seems counter productive. I would probably be giving the bird small higher protein treats. Things like small slivers or raw animal liver and tuna and ground beef and scrambled egg etc obviously in very small quantity and a little at a time along with regular food.

It is good to hear that there is no second hole and the protrusion is entirely extending from the vent but less good that it is going hard, so do your best to keep it moist and pliable. If you don't think it is intestine then it has to be oviduct (I am really unable to tell from the photo), but it still needs to go back inside eventually, so keep gently trying to reinsert it and hold it there for several minutes each time, ideally until she stops trying to push it back out but that may be unreasonable at this stage. The fact that she is eating and pooping is a big bonus and as long as that continues I would say that she is not in too much pain or distress and you have hope. If she goes off her food and starts to look dull, it would be time to consider euthanizing to end her discomfort.
Is her abdomen still looking/feeling full and have you considered draining that? Doing so may relieve some pressure in her abdominal cavity and make space for that prolapse to go back in. There is a really good video on You Tube where a lady documents draining her hen for the second time. She explains and illustrates it really well and it is better than some vets tutorials I have seen. It may help you have the confidence to tackle it. I will see if I can find and post the link....

 

[rebrascora]

Here it is....

 

[SunshineAnShade]

Hi tabra, thanks for your input. She is still with us but her condition is about the same maybe worse. I've been trying to keep her vent in but she always pops it back out and despite seeing her eating and active, she is loosing weight and goes to roost early in the day. I'm at a loss. I don't know if I can bring myself to cull her!
I know that would be the best thing for her though...

 

[Eggcessive]

Can you ask a neighbor or friend to put her down? Or do you know anyone who hunts that would shoot her? I am really surprised that she has lasted this long with her insides coming out like that.

 

[SunshineAnShade]

Hi tabra, thanks for your input. She is still with us but her condition is about the same maybe worse. I've been trying to keep her vent in but she always pops it back out and despite seeing her eating and active, she is loosing weight and goes to roost early in the day. I'm at a loss. I don't know if I can bring myself to cull her!
I know that would be the best thing for her though...

I can ask but she would have to be taken somewhere remote to do it. My neighbors are a stones throw from us in all directions. Someone would probably call the cops