Need Good Ol' Chicken Dog

Birdie is a tri like our Glory. And, yes, shelties are good little working dogs, just not a match for the big predators. Here is Yuma at 3 months going out and bringing back some bantam hens he felt had strayed too far.
That's awesome! Do you have a close up of his face?

Animalspooker, I would say that even though a Sheltie may not be able to fight off a predator, they would definitely still watch over their flock and property. And they will bark, which may be enough to deter an animal that was considering how easy of prey your flock would be. I guess it depends on what kinds of predators you have around. But as with any puppy, you have to teach them what their job is, and not leave them unsupervised until they are mature and trustworthy. It kind of sounds like the pups you had bad luck with from the pound might have been too young to be left on their own with the birds.

You might try a purebred rescue group if you want an economical dog. With any purebred, you will have a better idea of what the breed was developed for, as opposed to trusting your luck with an unknown mix. Also, the purebred rescue groups may know more about each dog's background and temperament, and be able to steer you towards a more suitable prospect. Good luck to you. I hope you find just the right dog, and have success in training it.
 
The problem with purebred rescues and rescues in general is they are often against farm dogs. There's a Great Pyrenees rescue that says it is "cruel" to keep your dogs outside and only adopts to indoor pet homes.
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I was not calling you personally ignorant by any means. I apologize if you thought I was. My reference to "ignorant" is defined as "[COLOR=222222]lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular.[/COLOR] The field of applied animal behavior was virtually non existent 30 years ago. I was ignorant of it as well back then. Most earlier training methods were based upon punishment and aversives. As an educator, I'm compelled to dispel myths when an opportunity presents itself.  In your scenario, leaving the dead chicken tied around the dog's neck has nothing to do with the behavioral change. The dog sensing a human's anger by body language, scolding, tone of voice and being exiled (we call that a time out now) and associating those negatives with the sight and smell of the presented carcass elicited the change in behavior if there was one. Training a dog basic obedience and "leave it", correcting even the slightest interest in the chickens from the beginning, rewarding the dog for ignoring a scampering chicken is best practice. Some owners find the use of a remote trainer effective. If punishment is necessary, skip the tying the chicken step. Show the dog the chicken, harshly scold with the meanest posture and growly voice you can muster. Kennel or ignore the dog. Do that a few times then dispose of the chicken.  Here is a link to a great fun book.  "Don't Shoot the Dog https://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=DTB116


I agree with the training methods you use, for sure! But when those training methods have been implemented, and the dog still sneaks and kills a chicken, that's the time the old farmers resorted to tying the dead chicken around the dog's neck. It was never used as the first training method.

I recently talked to a man at a farm supply who's flock was protected by a Great Pyrenees, which recently died. He said he trains dogs to avoid chickens by hiding behind a tree and shooting the dog in the butt with a beebee gun, softly of course. I hate that idea, but if he's a good enough shot not to hurt the dog, I guess it works; but it's too risky in my opinion. And I don't have experience with beebee guns so I don't know how softly you could hit a dog with one. I don't believe in inflicting pain when training.
 
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That's awesome! Do you have a close up of his face?

Animalspooker, I would say that even though a Sheltie may not be able to fight off a predator, they would definitely still watch over their flock and property. And they will bark, which may be enough to deter an animal that was considering how easy of prey your flock would be. I guess it depends on what kinds of predators you have around. But as with any puppy, you have to teach them what their job is, and not leave them unsupervised until they are mature and trustworthy. It kind of sounds like the pups you had bad luck with from the pound might have been too young to be left on their own with the birds.

You might try a purebred rescue group if you want an economical dog. With any purebred, you will have a better idea of what the breed was developed for, as opposed to trusting your luck with an unknown mix. Also, the purebred rescue groups may know more about each dog's background and temperament, and be able to steer you towards a more suitable prospect. Good luck to you. I hope you find just the right dog, and have success in training it.


Our major predators are hawks and foxes. The hawks seem to attack only the small chickens and won't come down if anything else is out. If there are big roosters out they don't come down either. And foxes tend to stay away when the dogs are out. As I said before shelties are alarm clocks and let you know about everything that is off kilter in their minds. Thankfully skunks, weasels and their ilk and raccoons are nocturnal so if the chickens are locked up they have been safe. In the past five years foxes have been our only successful predator and that was during the way when everyone was inside and all was quiet outside and the weather was misting, drizzling and grey. Now in that scenario the chickens are locked up and we've added fencing.
 
The problem with purebred rescues and rescues in general is they are often against farm dogs. There's a Great Pyrenees rescue that says it is "cruel" to keep your dogs outside and only adopts to indoor pet homes. :rolleyes:


In the old days when big families were all over the farm, coming and going, keeping predators under control, maintaining the buildings well, it wasn't so bad for farm dogs to live outside because they had a lot of interaction with the family and jobs to do. But from what I've seen on farms now, it really is cruel to make the dogs live outside 24/7, and a huge percentage of dogs disappear.

I believe they should be inside the house before sunset, and let out later in the AM when the predators aren't as active.

Dogs crave human attention, they want to be inside with you, especially during extreme weather.

I hate to see farm dogs cringing in fear next to the house at night while the coyotes are howling, because they will now come right up onto your porch to kill your dog, even your big dogs.

With good flea and tick control products, there's no reason to keep a dog outside 24/7. Dogs are family members.
 
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Dogs crave human attention, they want to be inside with you, especially during extreme weather.
I really hate this idea. Modern dog breeds have been bred to excessively depend on human affection. The vast majority of dogs before that preferred to work alone, most would only tolerate one owner or family.
For every dog whining to come in there are many more whining to go out. Personally I can't stand "velcro dogs" I think separation anxiety in dogs is pathetic, not cute or loving. A healthy, well-adjusted farm dog is happiest outdoors.
 
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I think ConPollos idea applies more to pet dogs than working farm dogs.

And HeritageGoose's idea applies to independent breeds of working dogs, but certainly not to the "vast majority" of all breeds. Some breeds were developed to work independently, but most breeds were developed to either work in close cooperation with their human, or else developed as lap/companion pets only. And those should never be housed outdoors away from their family.

There's not a blanket view that can cover every type of dog. But both opinions are right when applied to the correct type of breed.
 
With good flea and tick control products, there's no reason to keep a dog outside 24/7. Dogs are family members.
Actually, I'm not arguing with your opinion, pet dogs are family members and should be with their family a reasonable amount of time. But a working farm dog that acclimates its coat to the winter weather would not be well off going into the heated house at night. There are a few reasons why certain dogs should stay outside 24/7. Think of the sled dogs.
 
We had a Sheltie mix before we had chickens and she was a great dog. Very smart breed, she used to herd our other dogs, cats, and her toys!

We now have a 3 yo Great Pyrenees but don't use her to guard our free range hens. She a pet and spends a good deal of time in the house. She is a great guard dog, though they can be noisy. She barked frequently at night as a pup but only does now if the dogs go out at night to use the bathroom and she feels the need to alert us. She's always on the job, alerting us to everything that moves. She's very protective of the whole family including our other dogs and cats. There can be a deer in the yard not even making a noise and she will wake from a sound sleep to alert us.
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MY hens free range with my horses, a Quarter horse and a mini. The hens follow the horses around, hang out in the barn with them, and seem to enjoy being around them. I believe the horses offer some measure of protection during the day and the hens are locked in the coop at night. I agree that donkey could also be a good guardian.

I think a Great Pyrenees or Anatolian would be a great poultry guardian, but as many others have stated training is key. They are a giant breed and need about 18-24 months (or longer) to mature enough to not be mischievous puppies. Of course that will vary with each individual dog. Our GP turned 3 in April and that seemed to be a turning point for her, prior we had to keep things puppy proofed pretty well (not easy with a 100# dog!) as she'd find things in the house and yard to get into and chew up. Although a dog with a specific job might be more focused on the task at hand.

I suggest rather than getting rid of the Pyr mix, keep working on training her. They can be stubborn and a challenge to train at some things but they independent, smart, and their instinct to guard runs deep. They are gentle with their "flock" whatever the species and are very protective, and LOUD!
 
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