Need help from you genetics gurus with breeding crele...thanks!!

[flyingmonkeypoop]

Onthespot, he looks like a crele. The males can be hard to tell as barring on partridge, BBR, and wheaton all look alike in the males. The females are what really show the color. I have found that alot of the partridge silkies I have seen have an overall BBR look to them.

The differences in crele and barred brownred are a few. The breast lacing is one, and the females are another. A barred brownred female will be a black barred bird with some red in the breast and hackle.

 

[Kev]

Got to disagree. For starters, true crele chicks are born with the classic BBR chick pattern(chimpunk stripes) with the white head spot being more or less visible. That is the very first and clear clue as to whether a bird is crele or not.

If a rooster grew up mostly or even solid black and then acquires the brown or red on hackles and saddles, this is not crele. These are either brown reds or leaky E blacks(as in black stars).

That rooster is not a crele as he is a bird that grew up mostly black then acquired the colored saddles/hackles.. plus he is lacking a distinct clear 'duckwing' patch on the wing(on the secondaries not on the wing bow) Cuckoo marans can be either E or birchen.. both are dominant over BBR so that is the last but important clue. He's a brown red or a barred leaky E bird.

What about crele is different from a barred brown red?

To sum it up.. crele is sex linked barring(the white bars) over a Black Breasted Red (aka red duckwing) bird.

Barred brown reds are sex linked barring over a brown red.. aka Copper Black Marans.

Nobody will dare call a copper black/brown reds a BBR or vice versa, right? Adding barring into the mix shouldn't make any difference in this regard. Crele is a term that was already applied by the poultry hobby to mean specifically a barred BBR bird. Calling a brown red with barring 'crele' is akin to calling a non-barred brown red a "BBR".​

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

Kev since you know alot about genetics, wouldnt a barred cock on buff/red hens produce crele looking birds?

 

[Cuban Longtails]

Yes it does, depending on the background of the buff coloring. I've had silver & gold barring show up from the combination of a barred cock over a buff hen.

 

[onthespot]

if you have any photos of that, I'd sure like to see... i really like genetics, never had any idea chickens had so much genetics to them. I'da been all over chickens twenty years ago if I knew what I know now, after only a few months.

 

[Three Cedars Silkies]

So I guess my question remains...What will the barred roo over a brown/red cochin hen produce?

 

[Kev]

Quote:
Crele-looking birds yes possibly, probably like that rooster. Think of black stars with bars on both sexes basically. A lot of people do call leaky blacks or gold birchens with barring as 'creles' so they look crele-ish to many. Still, the hens will be far too black to mistake easily as crele hens..

Many buffs have a wheaten base, sometimes very crele-looking birds result from barred and buff mixes (not crosses, as in letting the birds mix freely for a few generations).

In actuality, true creles are relatively rare.. most of those usually turn out to be either OEGB, standard OEG or 'pit games'. Pity as crele is one of my most favorite color patterns and wish it would be found in more breeds. Understandable though as many breeds don't even have BBR as part of their accepted colors and/or the barring interferes with the leg color.

 

[Kev]

Quote:
Answered in #7 of this thread:

In fact that rooster looks like a barred brown-red. If that's your goal, then breeding to the brown-red hen will get you birds more or less like him. I don't know if you will get any in the first generation, but if you get all barreds in the first generation just choose one of them and breed it to a brown red.​

 

[Three Cedars Silkies]

OK...thanks so much Kev. Anybody got a SQ re/brown cochin hen for sale???

 

[Deej211]

my crele araucana roo. Cuckoo roo over wheaten hen