Need help in Tennessee -please

[frenchblackcopper]

If you plan to be in Peas for the long haul,,open the checkbook up wide.Some colors are just to valuable not to have a proper shelter from the elements and vermin.

 

[Trefoil]

Ivermectin is supposed to get everything but tapeworm. Is that true? Does it work on gape worms? Do peas get tapeworm? The safeguard that is easily available to me is in the pelleted form fpr gpats. Can anyone tell me what the dosage per pea would be?
IMO Its better to look at worms as just another predator, you don't wait until you start losing birds to protect against them.

 

[Yoda]

The two TSC stores within 30 miles of me were all out of the safeguard over the last 10 days. I ordered some online Sunday and it is not here yet.
I have been feeding them medicated Purina Gamebird starter feed. Please try to switch the chick to medicated chick starter.
I checked on my remaining peachick and she is still alive. I don't know for how long though, she is very weak. Is she gaping?
Yesterday afternoon, I mixed up some Wazine with water and gave her a few ccs of it. This morning her droppings were full of worms. Keep giving her the wazine til you get the safeguard the same way you did to get he to poop worms, That's actually a good sign she is passing them. Are they dead or still moving, you want them dead. Again when you get the wormer give it to the adult too cause he most likely has worms as well.
I gave her a couple of ccs more this morning. I have her in a cage, up off the ground, in my garage.
My specific questions are...
How do I know my peafowl have worms if I haven't seen any on their droppings? There are usually 2 main killers of peachicks that are most common in chicks that are kept off the dirt/ground, there are others but these two are the top two. Coccidia and Worms. If feeding medicated chick starter and your bird starts getting sick chances are it is worms, thus you worm them for 3 days. If they bounce back then you caught it. If they don't bounce back then most likely the got coccidia. You then treat for that. and if they bounce back then your saved them. Check the pack date on the feed bag and always get the freshest as the amprolium will get weaker from age.
What are the symptoms of worms? You usually find segments of the worms in the poo
Yoda said that if I suspect my peafowl are sick to go ahead and worm them. Sounds like a great idea.

frenchblackcopper, as soon as I put the chicks (they were about 3 months old) on the ground, they started getting sick. I felt sorry for them being cooped up in a smaller area, so I released them. When you did they started exporing and grabbing everything with their mouth. Mine bite at everything
I have a smaller area, about 5' x3', sectioned off in the peafowl house that I had been keeping them in for about 3 weeks. Before that, they were in my garage in a 5' x 2' box. The area I have sectioned off in the house has a floor made of plywood, covered with sand and straw. I cleaned their floor area about once a week. Is it okay to leave them in that sectioned off area until they are older, about 5-6 months old? I say yes but get rid of the sand and straw. Use fresh pine shavings or build and elevated wire floor for them to walk on.
Thank you so much for all of your help guys, I really appreciate it. Your Welcome!

 

[Yoda]

SusanP4,,This is my first year having birds reach breeding age.I've only had peafowl 2 years but amassed a good number of them.Egg laying season here is all but over so probably after we get the expected heavy rains from hurricane Issac expected to get here Saturday and last all thru Labor Day weekend I plan to worm.It has been so very dry in the soil here all summer earthworms was all but non existant as many other ground born species of worms.I plan on doing what Yoda recommends using Safeguard then follow up using Evirmectrin 3-4 months later using 1cc under each wing of the birds. Evirmectrin is made by the same company as Ivermectrin,(Maerck?)Ivermectrin has been around 20 years,we used to inject our breeding swine with it to kill external sucking parasites.I'm pretty sure the same active ingredient in Ivermectrin is also used in Frontline for dogs.This gets into the animals bloodstream and kills whatever ingests blood-body fluids.In swine we always used two-three diffrent wormers,Piprazine comes to mind used in the water.Safeguard does not kill every type of internal worms but followed up 3-4 months later with Evirmectrin for horses gives a much broader spectrum and diffrent "mode" to kill,safeguard is for internal parasites,Evirmectrin is for external parasites and does kill some internal ones Safeguard doesn't. I've been told Ivermectrin is very hard on peafowl and I won't chance losing a breeding aged bird by using it. Ok I could not find Evirmectrin anywhere on the net. Why give the bird two doses of a product that cannot be found under the wing? Deerman has been raising peafowl for many years and has never had any problems with Ivermectin pour on for cattle and he told me to use it and I have never had any problems with it. Ivermectin kills all the internal parasites that safeguard does not and will kill some external ones too. When your birds get gape worm you will be using it. Safeguard contain panacure(sp) and is used for tapeworms and cecal worms, Ivermectin kills the rest.
Some people keep peachicks in brooders for several months,many more weeks than I do.I have 4 seperate pens all above the ground,,each one inside my garage which has a concrete floor in it.I use wood shavings for bedding.I start with a good 2"-3" worth and as it gets soiled I add more shavings possibly adding another 2" worth. Why not just shovel out the soiled shavings? You can do this several times and not remove all the shavings and start over. Mine get fresh and clean shaving each and everytime. I've found straw holds too much moisture.It may appear dry on the top but underneath can be soaking wet,a great place to grow bacteria and germs even tho whats on the top 1/2" my look like clean brite-new straw. Yes I never use straw for my peas but my goats Lucy and Ethal love the straw

Younger peas don't require a lot of space and if you can keep them in relatively clean surroundings that is also dry with no exposure to dirt they will be okay.A 5X3 area should hold 1-3 peas easy for a long time as long as housekeeping is kept up.From my observations peas are not like pheasats or quail which will start picking at each other if overcrowded,,but I've always had plenty of seperate pen space so overcrowding has never happened here.Keep them clean,off dirt and dry with no cold drafts and they should be fine.

 

[Yoda]

I learned my lesson. Trust me you don't build one of these until you know that you need it!

Very nice! I will have to show you mine now LOL! No it is not like yours by any means LOL

 

[Yoda]

Ivermectin is supposed to get everything but tapeworm. Is that true? Does it work on gape worms? Do peas get tapeworm? The safeguard that is easily available to me is in the pelleted form fpr gpats. Can anyone tell me what the dosage per pea would be?
IMO Its better to look at worms as just another predator, you don't wait until you start losing birds to protect against them.

Ivermectin gets everything but tapeworms and cecal worms. Yes it kills gape worms. Yes peas get them too! If you want the liquid for goats and connot find it in your area just buy it on Ebay and it will be delivered to your door in a couple days. In my area the liquid costs about $20 a 125 ml bottle plus tax. I seen it for a buy it now price of $21 free shipping. Here's a link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Safe-Guard-...688?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c2ed5750

Yes worms are a silent predator IMO the worst ones!

 

[frenchblackcopper]

Yoda,,Why give the bird two doses of a product that cannot be found under the wing? Deerman has been raising peafowl for many years and has never had any problems with Ivermectin pour on for cattle and he told me to use it and I have never had any problems with it. Ivermectin kills all the internal parasites that safeguard does not and will kill some external ones too. When your birds get gape worm you will be using it. Safeguard contain panacure(sp) and is used for tapeworms and cecal worms, Ivermectin kills the rest
I don't understand this,,about 2 doses being given of a product that cannot be found under the wing???? You give 1cc liquid per wing,,2cc total dose and why is it so hard to give under the wing? Why cannot you find a location under the wing close to the body on the first wing segment,move a feather over so bare skin is showing,and apply the 1cc drop there,then move to the other side?? Also this needs to soak into the skin and not be washed off in the case of rain.Thats why under the wing is better. Frontline for dogs also must be applied and the dog not allowed to swim or get into water for a few hours until it soaks in and it has the same active ingredients as Ivermectrin.It can be washed off deeming the treatment worthless.I know some breeders of dogs actually give ivermectrin orally to their dogs instead of the higher priced Frontline,,They've been doing it for years and saving tons of money but I won't do this.I'm following a worming regime that was given to me by Bigcreekpoultry who has had peafowl for many,many years herself and she has a very good vet that knows and will work on birds-peafowl,,if it's good enough for her and all her Peas,why not replicate a sucessful breeders parasite-worming program-routine?She showed me Evirmectrin,,not Ivermectrin.
You next ask about shoveling out shavings,,when I start with a 40 pound compresed bag on a 3'x8' area it is about 3" deep for the first week,then the fluffiness goes down and the shavings gets settled to maybe only 1 1/2" deep,,shavings will dry and just because they may settle or get "soiled" does not mean that they are all useless.I just add fresh havings on top of the previous layer and let the peachicks settle and mix them around.Why scoop out the first 40 pounds when 25 of those pounds of shavings still are dry-absorbant and usefull? Why scoop out 5 times per season when once is plenty? And why throw perfectly absorbant shavings away that have a lot of use left? Unless you live next to a sawmill and get shavings free I have no issues with cleaning them out daily and replacing with new daily,,but where I'm at shavings costs about $5 a 40lb bale and it's my wallet that feeds the cashiers cash register.
I learned this trick with shavings years ago on the poultry forum here.Even wet shavings can be mixed or stirred up and they will dry out.They do not "matt" down when wet like straw does.Shavings do not attract mice like straw does.Next time you clean and replace all your shavings before it's time to replace them all again,try adding about 1/2 new shavings of the total amount it took to bed the first time.Just throw it on top of the old and let the peachicks mix it in. It will settle down and the fluffiness will disappear just as the first shavings did. I just have better things to do every week than completely clean out a brooder and start over when it's not necessary or cost effective.Reduce,Reuse,Recycle,,and save some cash for those higher feed bills that are coming.

 

[Yoda]

Yoda,,Why give the bird two doses of a product that cannot be found under the wing? Deerman has been raising peafowl for many years and has never had any problems with Ivermectin pour on for cattle and he told me to use it and I have never had any problems with it. Ivermectin kills all the internal parasites that safeguard does not and will kill some external ones too. When your birds get gape worm you will be using it. Safeguard contain panacure(sp) and is used for tapeworms and cecal worms, Ivermectin kills the rest
I don't understand this,,about 2 doses being given of a product that cannot be found under the wing???? You give 1cc liquid per wing,,2cc total dose and why is it so hard to give under the wing? Why cannot you find a location under the wing close to the body on the first wing segment,move a feather over so bare skin is showing,and apply the 1cc drop there,then move to the other side?? Also this needs to soak into the skin and not be washed off in the case of rain.Thats why under the wing is better. Frontline for dogs also must be applied and the dog not allowed to swim or get into water for a few hours until it soaks in and it has the same active ingredients as Ivermectrin.It can be washed off deeming the treatment worthless.I know some breeders of dogs actually give ivermectrin orally to their dogs instead of the higher priced Frontline,,They've been doing it for years and saving tons of money but I won't do this.I'm following a worming regime that was given to me by Bigcreekpoultry who has had peafowl for many,many years herself and she has a very good vet that knows and will work on birds-peafowl,,if it's good enough for her and all her Peas,why not replicate a sucessful breeders parasite-worming program-routine?She showed me Evirmectrin,,not Ivermectrin.
You next ask about shoveling out shavings,,when I start with a 40 pound compresed bag on a 3'x8' area it is about 3" deep for the first week,then the fluffiness goes down and the shavings gets settled to maybe only 1 1/2" deep,,shavings will dry and just because they may settle or get "soiled" does not mean that they are all useless.I just add fresh havings on top of the previous layer and let the peachicks settle and mix them around.Why scoop out the first 40 pounds when 25 of those pounds of shavings still are dry-absorbant and usefull? Why scoop out 5 times per season when once is plenty? And why throw perfectly absorbant shavings away that have a lot of use left? Unless you live next to a sawmill and get shavings free I have no issues with cleaning them out daily and replacing with new daily,,but where I'm at shavings costs about $5 a 40lb bale and it's my wallet that feeds the cashiers cash register.
I learned this trick with shavings years ago on the poultry forum here.Even wet shavings can be mixed or stirred up and they will dry out.They do not "matt" down when wet like straw does.Shavings do not attract mice like straw does.Next time you clean and replace all your shavings before it's time to replace them all again,try adding about 1/2 new shavings of the total amount it took to bed the first time.Just throw it on top of the old and let the peachicks mix it in. It will settle down and the fluffiness will disappear just as the first shavings did. I just have better things to do every week than completely clean out a brooder and start over when it's not necessary or cost effective.Reduce,Reuse,Recycle,,and save some cash for those higher feed bills that are coming.

Ok first you need to understand that Frontline for dogs does not get absorbed into the skin. It works with the oils in the dogs coat to create a barrier. The frontline is a concentrate and takes 3 days for it to mix with the oils on the coat. The Frontline settles in the base of each hair in the oil glands. That is why you cannot wash the dog 3 days before and 3 days after appling frontline cause you will wash off the oil on the hairs. Dipping the dog goes into the bloodstream. Sorry been a groomer for 21 years. I went back into my notes and found what Deerman said. He said to use 1cc at the base of the neck. He said that between 50 - 75% will get absorbed by the feathers and that about 25 - 30% will actaully get aborbed into thew skin. I googled and cannot find Evirmectrin anywhere only Ivermectin comes up. You are putting 2cc onto the bird, that's double the 1cc of Ivermectin. I do not know how safe that dosage is because I cannot find the product anywhere, are you spelling it correctly?
I clean mine shavings every 2-3 weeks. To me soiled is a lot of poop. Yes I agree with you take a plastic pitchfork and fluff it up and add more is good and saves money but I misunderstood what you meant by soiled. I was think wet nasty poop covered shaving LOL My shed is 10 x 14 and I use 3 bags of shavings each clean out at $5.50 a bag. But my chicks are not on the ground in there. I am going to start a thread so we can show others our set ups. Sounds like an informative thread others can use.

 

[frenchblackcopper]

Yoda,,Bigcreek had a container of this Evirmectrin,,,,she showed it to me so I could look for it,was in a yellow container I believe,I had another pea breeder here yesterday buying a Black Langshan roo from me,,hes the one that sold me all my IB eggs to hatch 2 years ago,he too uses Evirmectrin 1cc per wing,,maybe it's just a localized thing in the Midwest,,?? Thats 2 breeders now that both uses this Evirmectrin under the wings,,so it's not a fantasy of mine,,think Evirmectrin is for horses too.No need to be sorry for being a dog groomer,,, we have 7 dogs here as well,,dogs and peas,,,who really needs a humans when you've got loving animals?
Soiled shavings to me is when they are no longer brite-clean and they mostly look like dirt.To the point they don't resemble shavings anymore,,it all depends on the number of birds and how large the space is that is a deciding factor when I add more,or decide to completely start over with all new.
Yes,a thread showing early rearing and housing for young peas would be GREAT! Next spring I plan on changing my brooder pen arrangement so as to keep all same colored peas together,,,after sorting out one pen of chicks yesterday from 3 breeding birds I was very suprised at the diffrent varieties that is now showing color and pattern wise.when 20 chicks are all togther without legbands to distinguish them apart,,they all look the same somewhat.

 

[Bigcreekpeafowl]

Ivermectin is very good for external parasites on peafowl. And the best for gape worm if given orally.
Other than that it isn't near as effective as other wormers. It is the harshest and not recommended for peafowl under 6 months, because it is harsh.
It does not guard against the two most deadly worms to peafowl cecal and capillary worms. Which is why many people who count on it for worms end up with dead peafowl.
We have used eprinex for about 4 years now. We like it. But still use Ivermectin in the fall.
Some rotate wormers some don't. We do for several reasons.

I do think location and enviroment play a big role. So what works in one area, may not be as effective as others.
Dosing is another issue. We do not apply on birds on the back of the neck since 30-60% is wasted by the feathers preventing the absorption. It can get diluted more in that location from water or oil from the feathers.
Ivermectin by many is given orally which we do that or apply it under the wings.
We are anal about dosing, yes I admit it.
The proper dose is as necessary as the proper medication for the most part.

When adding wormers to the water as a preventative I still cringe a little, but no doubt it is so much easier than having to catch each bird for 2-3 days in a row then all over again in 10-14 days. The java's sometime get the better of me and it is not pretty. If there are the actual infestation of worm eggs in the stool or a bird crashing, then they get dosed by drench.
What we do is best for our situation. Does not make other ways wrong by no means. And we are constantly learning too. Nothing is perfect or infalable.