Need Help Setting Up ID System/Record Keeping

[Storybook Farm]

So, this year I’m getting serious about breeding (been building stock for two years). I plan a combination of family mating (3 families per breed) and pair mating for extra special birds.

I plan to toe punch to start. That gives me 15 numbers... which, by my calculations, allows me to mark the family (left foot, #s 1-3) and also mark 3 specific hens within each family. Then, there are 3 numbers left over if I want to go outside any of my families.

View attachment 1204074
Toe Punching: Per breed
We can toe punch up to 15 numbers

In Family breeding, I’ll have a max of 5 hens —> one cock
1 = Family A
2 = Family B
3 = Family C

Certain Hens in A (one cock; varying hens)
5
9
13

Certain Hens in B (one cock; varying hens)
6
10
14

Certain Hens in C (one cock; varying hens)
7
11
15

Unrelated to a family:
4
8
12

If I toe punch for only certain pairs, then I only have 15 pairs max.

So far, so good.

My quandaries are with banding (I lean towards wing bands) and with record keeping (pencil/paper? Software? If the latter, which program?)

I read this article that suggests that both wing and leg bands have significant psychological and social effects on hens that lead to stress and lower weights, and possibly lower fertility. https://academic.oup.com/ps/article/87/6/1052/1588223

Has anyone ever encountered this information? If so, what (if anything) did you do about it?

Can anyone tell me that this is a highly specific study with low impacts on overall weights/performance of birds? Someone, who, say, has wing banded for years but has birds that are large and happy and fertile?

I was considering toe punching at hatch and then (because of this article) banding only after culling (meaning, I wouldn’t band before the birds were almost fully grown... 8 months to a year old and I knew I was going to use them). By this scheme, the toe punches would be my only way to trace back to matings.

And then there’s the question of how to record the information... the programs that I know of are ZooEasy and Kintraks. Or... there’s paper... but how to set THAT up?

If you have any wisdom to share on any of these topics, PLEASE reply! Thanks in advance!

 

[BantyChooks]

So, this year I’m getting serious about breeding (been building stock for two years). I plan a combination of family mating (3 families per breed) and pair mating for extra special birds.

I plan to toe punch to start. That gives me 15 numbers... which, by my calculations, allows me to mark the family (left foot, #s 1-3) and also mark 3 specific hens within each family. Then, there are 3 numbers left over if I want to go outside any of my families.

View attachment 1204049

Toe Punching: Per breed
We can toe punch up to 15 numbers

In Family breeding, I’ll have a max of 5 hens —> one cock
1 = Family A
2 = Family B
3 = Family C

Certain Hens in A (one cock; varying hens)
5
9
13

Certain Hens in B (one cock; varying hens)
6
10
14

Certain Hens in C (one cock; varying hens)
7
11
15

Unrelated to a family:
4
8
12

If I toe punch for only certain pairs, then I only have 15 pairs max.

So far, so good.

My quandaries are with banding (I lean towards wing bands) and with record keeping (pencil/paper? Software? If the latter, which program?)

I read this article that suggests that both wing and leg bands have significant psychological and social effects on hens that lead to stress and lower weights, and possibly lower fertility. https://academic.oup.com/ps/article/87/6/1052/1588223

Has anyone ever encountered this information? If so, what (if anything) did you do about it?

Can anyone tell me that this is a highly specific study with low impacts on overall weights/performance of birds? Someone, who, say, has wing banded for years but has birds that are large and happy and fertile?

I was considering toe punching at the outset and then banding only after culling (meaning, I wouldn’t band before the birds were almost fully grown... 8 months to a year old. By this scheme, the toe punches would be my only way to trace back to matings.

And then there’s the question of how to record the information... the programs that I know of are ZooEasy and Kintraks. Or... there’s paper... but how to set THAT up?

If you have any wisdom to share on any of these topics, PLEASE reply! Thanks in advance!

Interesting thoughts. I don't have much to offer, but I can tell you that I use leg bands and have NEVER seen anything the like. Haven't heard of it either, before now.

 

[BantyChooks]

As for my records, I currently use paper. Each bird gets a page---if you are hatching to sell then that might not work. Hatching and breeding records are kept separate with sire, dam, hatch rate etc listed. I track individual bird health, colouring at different ages, growth rate, flaws, you name it. For a larger operation that might require tweaking.

 

[Storybook Farm]

I would LIKE to wing band at two weeks... just a little thrown off by the article... thanks for the reply!

 

[Storybook Farm]

As for my records, I currently use paper. Each bird gets a page---if you are hatching to sell then that might not work. Hatching and breeding records are kept separate with sire, dam, hatch rate etc listed. I track individual bird health, colouring at different ages, growth rate, flaws, you name it. For a larger operation that might require tweaking.

I am not interested in keeping records for chicks I sell. But, I do want to do it for those I put on the ground for next year’s culls. So... can you take a picture of one of your “bird pages”, pretty please? And, how do you keep track of relationships after a few years when breeding using paper?

 

[Storybook Farm]

Sorry, this was supposed to be in my OP, but wouldn’t upload for me. Toe punch chart. To restate:

Toe Punching: Per breed
We can toe punch up to 15 numbers

Families include one cock and up to 5 hens.
1 = Family A
2 = Family B
3 = Family C

Certain Hens in A (one cock; varying hens)
#5
#9
#13

Certain Hens in B (one cock; varying hens)
#6
#10
#14

Certain Hens in C (one cock; varying hens)
#7
#11
#15

Unrelated to a family:
#4
#8
#12

If I toe punch for only certain pairs (no families), then I can only have 15 pairs max. (I know of the slash + punch method to double this, but I don’t want to slash.)

 

[Brahma Chicken5000]

Very interesting. I will be breeding chickens in a few years and I was also brainstorming ideas of how to keep records. So here are my thoughts:
I will use leg bands of different colors on all my breeding stock. That would mean that I could reuse numbers in combination with a different leg and color. I will use a different number for each breeding pen and the birds will be be banded with a number and a letter as week as H for Hen & R for Rooster ie. Light Brahma Rooster would be Y1R07B
Y is for yellow leg band,1 refers to breeding pen, R is for rooster, 07 means he was banded seventh, B is for brahma. I would keep separate notebooks for each pen as well as each breed. These are just my ideas I hope they help you.

 

[BantyChooks]

I am not interested in keeping records for chicks I sell. But, I do want to do it for those I put on the ground for next year’s culls. So... can you take a picture of one of your “bird pages”, pretty please? And, how do you keep track of relationships after a few years when breeding using paper?

Sure. Each page should have either source OR sire and dam on it, so though it might be lengthy, you could track which birds were related... dunno.

 

[Dr.Dale]

I read this article that suggests that both wing and leg bands have significant psychological and social effects on hens that lead to stress and lower weights, and possibly lower fertility. https://academic.oup.com/ps/article/87/6/1052/1588223

Thanks for posting the article. I read through it and I think that it is scientifically pretty weak evidence for negative effects from ID tags. Most of the reported effects were p<0.10, which is not generally considered to be significant. Also, they compared a wide number of measurements and did not appear to correct for multiple comparisons. This is a known statistical problem and it weakens the credibility of their conclusions.

Most likely there is some effect, but it is quite small. In all likelihood this study statistically over-estimated the size of the significant effects.

I would LIKE to wing band at two weeks... just a little thrown off by the article... thanks for the reply!

I think you should go ahead.

 

[Storybook Farm]

Thanks for this helpful response!