Need help with an ethical question.

[Oven Ready]

I, and the rest of us should have left our answers at yes or no and given a why if asked for. You did not ask for all of these long answers, we forced them upon you. So, for that, I am sorry.

I agree, I joined this forum to get help from other chickeny people and to provide help where I can. I didn't join to upset anyone or judge anyones actions or beliefs.

So on that note, I'll start again....

I think it is unethical to sell a chicken you know, or suspect, is diseased.
I don't think it is unethical to sell a chicken that is vaccinated, even if they may have had contact with a disease.
I think it is highly responsible to provide a honest and full background to prospective buyers when selling a chicken (or anything).​

 

[Lensters]

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That is exactly problem, everyone is oversimplifying the situation. There isn't a way for her to know if the birds are infected and chances are they are not. I culled about $2300 worth of birds when a couple of mine came down with Marek's. In those approximately 100 birds there probably was a carrier or two. However, with a small flock and good sanitation the chances she would be selling an infected bird are pretty slim. With the prevalence of Marek's in the "wild", most chickens out there have been exposed. Most of the chickens still around have become resistant to it and are only susceptible to it when stressed. I think that given a quarantine time after a strong exposure and warning to prospective buyers, then that is being ethical.

From The Merck Veterinary Manual:

Marek’s disease is one of the most ubiquitous avian infections; it is identified in chicken flocks worldwide. Every flock, except for those maintained under strict pathogen-free conditions, may be presumed to be infected. Although clinical disease is not always apparent in infected flocks, a subclinical decrease in growth rate and egg production may be economically important.

Feather dust travels miles and many wild birds are carriers. If you free range your flock, your birds have been exposed (a lot). If you have anything less than a HEPA filter on the intake to the ventilation system of your closed coop, your birds have been exposed. If you have ever touched your birds without sanitizing yourself first, your birds have been exposed. If you have ever opened the door to your coop, your birds have been exposed. Unless your flock is at a CDC lab for research, your birds have been exposed to Marek's.

For those people on their high horses... Your birds have been exposed to Marek's, cull them all immediately and don't even think about selling them.

 

[Lensters]

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I missed this when it was first posted. Thank you for doing some research instead of writing a knee jerk response.

Tumors and liver discoloration are pretty hard to find without doing a necropsy.

Paralysis only occurs at the end and it can appear to be loss of balance, breathing issues and/or diarrhea. Early breathing issues and diarrhea would be caused by secondary infections. Or actually in most cases, the primary infection which caused the birds immune system to succumb to Marek's.

I did fail to mention "red inflammation around the base of feathers" which while it is a pretty rare symptom, is easily checked for and should be noticed during routine health checks. I hope people are doing routine health checks if they are selling started birds.

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Yes, the disease can survive outside a host for up to six months. For fun, try calculating how far it can travel on a light breeze (say 2mph) for that length of time.

 

[Chook-A-Holic]

First of all I apologize if anyone took my post(#17) as judgmental, flaming, or a personal attack at the OP or anyone else. I however will not apologize for it's content. Anytime you pose a question such as this on a forum with 60,000 members, you should expect to get varying feelings and opinions. I also didn't post a reply others to attack me. If you don't like my opinion, just ignore it and move on. We all have to do what works for us personally. If my opinion is considered being on a "high horse", so be it(in-case this comment was directed at me). I like ridin' high.

 

[grammy of David]

Get Rid Of The Chicken And Get Guineas ...thus No Marek

 

[RECE*2C*]

i thought this site was for people to help you ... not for people to attack you

if you dont want the birds dont bye them.

 

[Jess N Jeff]

RECE*2C* :

i thought this site was for people to help you ... not for people to attack you

if you dont want the birds dont bye them.

So true!!!!!

I think some people woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning....

To the OP...Honesty is the best policy. If you tell someone about your flock history and they still want them...sell them or give them away.

For the rest of the people that are being cruel and judgemental, I hope you keep your flock in an air tight coop with no possible chance of wind or wild birds to get to them...

Good luck​

 

[Wynette]

Folks, I think this is a good discussion; I applaud the OP for asking such a controversial question. It's alright to have differing opinions, it is NOT alright to be mean-spirited in your posts. Stay on topic, and stop the nastiness or the thread will be closed.

 

[babsbag]

Thank you to those of you that tried to see that there might be more to this than selling a sick bird. I am always amazed that people are so quick to assume that I would do that when they don't even know me. Many years ago I sold some AKC puppies, that inspite of all my best efforts, contracted parvo, after I sold them. Out of the 10 puppies 6 got sick. One I spent a fortune on to save it, one died, and the others were already sold and not only did I call them and tell them that their dog might get sick in the next few days, but I refunded their money and volunteered to pay their vets bills, or they could give me back the pup. I lost a lot of money on those pups, much more than what a few chickens are worth.

I would never sell or give away a bird or any animal without telling the new owner everything I know about the animal, be it good, or be it bad. Do you really think that I would have ever started this post if my intentions were to just pawn these off on someone else? I never would have hatched any eggs if I had known at the time that I had Marek's.

I could just kill off the ones I don't want. DH is willing to do that, or I have a friend that is a vet that would probably give me a good deal. But I was just looking for other options since I am not going to eat them it just seems like a waste of a life, even if it is "just a chicken". I can't believe that people that raise chickens can really believe that there birds are safe from this disease and not carriers just because they have been vaccinated. In some ways the vaccine lets you just pretend that everything is ok. At least if they aren't vaccinated you would know in short order if your birds have Marek's. That is how I know that the breeder I got my birds from has a clean flock as she doesn't believe in vaccinating. I did vaccinate mine, hoping that I could stop this in my flock.

This thread hasn't helped me decide anything about my flock. It has helped me see that there are some heartless people out there. I hope that your flocks stays symptom free and that you never have to deal with culling because of Marek's. Not all of us that raise chickens are comfortable with culling and not all of us eat our birds (I don't eat my goats either...that is why I chose dairy goats to raise)

It is funny that no one mentioned that there might just be someone that already has Marek's in their flock or on their property that wouldn't mind taking some cute little banties that might just be resistant to this disease. But according to some I can't even try and sell or give them away because it might infect the neighbor of the person I am selling too. Well their flock is already exposed if they breathe. Sorry to burst your bubble.

I am not in this for the money, I just have too many chickens. And I be darned if my EE didn't go broody AGAIN. But I am not letting her have any eggs to hatch. What I really need is a baby or two for her (vaccinated pullets). sigh.

 

[Camelot Farms]

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If the vaccine does not prevent it , what does it do?