Need help with Design of New Shed for Coop

[Kentuckyrain]

I have an 8' x 12' Shed with a ceiling height of 7-8'.

I want to divide it down the center leaving a section for myself to walk in and maybe some supplies.
I want to add a 2nd story as well that is also divided down the middle.

I want to build ladders for the adults to be able to walk in and out easy.

I currenlty have the following chickens;

1 White Silkie Hen 1 yr old
1 White Silkie Rooster 1 yr old
3 Adult Laying Hens mixed breed layers over 2 years old
2 White Silkie Chicks (from the 2 White Silkie adults), they are 5 weeks old.
7 Chicks 1 week old from the White Silkie Rooster and the 3 Adult Laying Hens
1 Black Silkie 2 months old from another outside flock, not mine.
4 Chicks Mixed Seabring 5 weeks old from another outside flock, not mine.

So, total of 19 in all of different breeds/ages.

Right now, all 5 adults are and have been inside the Chicken Tractor for roosting and nesting but this will not suffice for winter months here in Northern Michigan.
Right now, the 7 chicks 1 week old and the 2 white Silkies 5 weeks old are all inside the Shed using temp shelter set up and ,,,
Right now, the 4 Mixed Seabring chicks 5 weeks old and the 2 month old Black Silkie chick are inside the shed but separated from the others in there.

I have my barn, the chicken tractor, the shed, and the garage all lined up and have ran wooden privacy fence along 3 sides and the 1 side inside my yard has chicken fence. I will have to measure that but there is a LOT of running space for them. I also plan on separating the outside as well.

Trying to have one section of the chickens, separated, but together.


I will post a few pics to give some idea of what I am doing and thanks in advance for any help offered in helping me design this.

 

[cavemanrich]

From What I am seeing in your pix, You have a few structures on your grounds. If you intend on keeping all the chickens you have... you will need all of that 8 x 12 shed for your chickens. If you confiscate half for your other needs, then you will shortly encounter OVERCROWDING.. Chicken math got the best of you. YOU ARE NOT THE FIRST VICTIM.... Add the 2nd story and keep it all for your needs exclusively. Don't think that you can make a 2 story chicken coop and use it successfully. I don't think your chickens will want to go to 2nd story and back down.. Most all chickens will want to be on the same level.. JMO.. I can be wrong. Give this idea some thought and keep asking specific questions. Remember that only you know what works best for your situation. I am just posting my common knowledge opinions.. Also take into consideration that with that amount of chickens , you will need sufficient ventilation. I see that you are in cold country... ventilation very important there in winter just the same. You will need to remove ammonia as well as moisture and humidity. Read up on some ventilation threads to inform self... YOU WILL NOT REGRET. Only regrets you will have is if you don't.. and you find out that you should have... Lots of nasties may already have happened at that point.
WISHING YOU BEST..

 

[Kentuckyrain]

From What I am seeing in your pix, You have a few structures on your grounds. If you intend on keeping all the chickens you have... you will need all of that 8 x 12 shed for your chickens. If you confiscate half for your other needs, then you will shortly encounter OVERCROWDING.. Chicken math got the best of you. YOU ARE NOT THE FIRST VICTIM.... Add the 2nd story and keep it all for your needs exclusively. Don't think that you can make a 2 story chicken coop and use it successfully. I don't think your chickens will want to go to 2nd story and back down.. Most all chickens will want to be on the same level.. JMO.. I can be wrong. Give this idea some thought and keep asking specific questions. Remember that only you know what works best for your situation. I am just posting my common knowledge opinions.. Also take into consideration that with that amount of chickens , you will need sufficient ventilation. I see that you are in cold country... ventilation very important there in winter just the same. You will need to remove ammonia as well as moisture and humidity. Read up on some ventilation threads to inform self... YOU WILL NOT REGRET. Only regrets you will have is if you don't.. and you find out that you should have... Lots of nasties may already have happened at that point.
WISHING YOU BEST..

Ok, I can use all of the shed and keep my supplies in my barn. For the second story, I was only thinking of doing that because I have a chicken tractor and the adults currently climb up to a second story to roost/nest every day anyways. I was thinking that if they already do this, it might not hurt to have a second story in the shed.

I definately will be working on proper ventilation,,, I had chickens many many years ago but have forgotten a lot over the years.

Thank you for your opinion and I do appreciate it very much.

 

[Ridgerunner]

An interesting mix of ages. I assume you eventually want to keep them all together as one flock in the main coop? Maybe separate for breeding purposes? It’s always good to have a way to isolate some from the others.

Chickens like to perch. They will often fly up on top of something solid to perch, like the top of your privacy fence. When they get up there who knows which side they might fly down on? A simple way to prevent that is to attach some stiff wire to the top of that fence so it sticks up 6” to a foot. Attach it at the top of the fence and again maybe 12” to 18” further down. The stiffness will keep it upright. That goes a long way toward keeping them in the run. It won’t be that noticeable but if that is a concern paint it black or dark green before you install it, at least the part that sticks up. It will be pretty invisible in the air.

Your exterior fence seems to be chicken wire. I don’t know what gauge that wire is, how secure it is. It will act as a barrier and stop most predators but a larger dog, a big raccoon, a coyote, some really large strong predators can tear their way through it. The smaller the gauge (the heavier the wire) the more protection it offers. I can’t remember what gauge I got but I have some kennel wire that looks like that and I’m pretty confident in it, but the lighter gauge wire is not a tremendous amount of protection. You might consider attaching some heavier wire, maybe 2”x4” welded wire to the bottom 24” or so of that fence for added security. Chicken wire on internal fences meant to contain chickens works really well but there are some predators it’s not great against. Just a chicken wire fence offers quite a bit of daytime protection but no matter what else you do I strongly suggest locking them up at night in a secure coop.

I can’t tell how securely the wire is attached to your buildings either. That connection needs to be strong. The way I did that was to take some ½” or ¾” thick wood and screw that over the ends of the wire, clamping it down pretty tightly plus making sure the screws went inside the openings in the wire. Drill pilot holes it make it easier to put the screws in plus that helps stop the wood from splitting. If appearance is important that should look better than just having the ends of the wire there plus you cover the sharp ends of the wire to stop snagging yourself. You can paint the wood either matching or contrasting to make it even prettier.

You might be surprised how well your non-silkie’s can fly, especially the bantams. If you partition off an area to contain them it needs to be totally enclosed. Don’t give them a chance to get out.

I really like the idea of partitioning the inside to create separate pens, but I also like to have doors or openings that can be opened to make use of the entire area if you are mingling the different birds. That gives you a lot more flexibility in how you manage them. I also like to be able to stand up in any section and have enough room to work or be able to easily reach inside an area. Think about your being able to access and work in each area when you are laying it out.

Your non-silkie feathered chickens will probably want to roost in the highest area they can get to. Your silkie-feathered birds can’t fly so roosting is more problematic. Some silkies are quite happy never roosting, just sleeping on the floor. Nothing wrong with that. Some do like to roost. Since they also need to be able to access your nests and you don’t want them sleeping and pooping in your nests, I’d suggest keeping your nests really low and building a ramp gentle enough that they can walk up to a roost that is a little higher than your nests. Especially with the different ages you could have some issues with birds wanting to sleep in your nests. Be generous in how much roost space you provide. I’d probably build roosts high enough that the flying birds can get to but the silkies cannot just to further separate them.

Since chickens are mostly ground dwelling birds there is some debate about how much building a loft helps. You can get different opinions on that. My opinion is that it can help. One way chickens have learned to live together peacefully as a flock is that when there is conflict the weaker runs away from the stronger or they just avoid them to begin with. That’s especially important during integration or when you have a mixed age flock with some juveniles. A loft gives them another place to avoid the bullies. I don’t see any real problems coming from you building a loft as long as you have access, especially for cleaning. But with so many of yours being silkies you may not benefit as much as others with non-silkies would. If you can get a ramp they will use, maybe they will use that area.

If you do build a loft I would not have that loft over the entire coop. I’d have one section I can easily stand in and reach into the loft sections and the sections below the loft.

Another thought. You can build a loft storage area, good for your stuff but without access by the chickens.

Just some thoughts for you to consider, not trying to tell you how to do it. Good luck!

 

[Kentuckyrain]

An interesting mix of ages. I assume you eventually want to keep them all together as one flock in the main coop? Maybe separate for breeding purposes? It’s always good to have a way to isolate some from the others.

Chickens like to perch. They will often fly up on top of something solid to perch, like the top of your privacy fence. When they get up there who knows which side they might fly down on? A simple way to prevent that is to attach some stiff wire to the top of that fence so it sticks up 6” to a foot. Attach it at the top of the fence and again maybe 12” to 18” further down. The stiffness will keep it upright. That goes a long way toward keeping them in the run. It won’t be that noticeable but if that is a concern paint it black or dark green before you install it, at least the part that sticks up. It will be pretty invisible in the air.

Your exterior fence seems to be chicken wire. I don’t know what gauge that wire is, how secure it is. It will act as a barrier and stop most predators but a larger dog, a big raccoon, a coyote, some really large strong predators can tear their way through it. The smaller the gauge (the heavier the wire) the more protection it offers. I can’t remember what gauge I got but I have some kennel wire that looks like that and I’m pretty confident in it, but the lighter gauge wire is not a tremendous amount of protection. You might consider attaching some heavier wire, maybe 2”x4” welded wire to the bottom 24” or so of that fence for added security. Chicken wire on internal fences meant to contain chickens works really well but there are some predators it’s not great against. Just a chicken wire fence offers quite a bit of daytime protection but no matter what else you do I strongly suggest locking them up at night in a secure coop.

I can’t tell how securely the wire is attached to your buildings either. That connection needs to be strong. The way I did that was to take some ½” or ¾” thick wood and screw that over the ends of the wire, clamping it down pretty tightly plus making sure the screws went inside the openings in the wire. Drill pilot holes it make it easier to put the screws in plus that helps stop the wood from splitting. If appearance is important that should look better than just having the ends of the wire there plus you cover the sharp ends of the wire to stop snagging yourself. You can paint the wood either matching or contrasting to make it even prettier.

You might be surprised how well your non-silkie’s can fly, especially the bantams. If you partition off an area to contain them it needs to be totally enclosed. Don’t give them a chance to get out.

I really like the idea of partitioning the inside to create separate pens, but I also like to have doors or openings that can be opened to make use of the entire area if you are mingling the different birds. That gives you a lot more flexibility in how you manage them. I also like to be able to stand up in any section and have enough room to work or be able to easily reach inside an area. Think about your being able to access and work in each area when you are laying it out.

Your non-silkie feathered chickens will probably want to roost in the highest area they can get to. Your silkie-feathered birds can’t fly so roosting is more problematic. Some silkies are quite happy never roosting, just sleeping on the floor. Nothing wrong with that. Some do like to roost. Since they also need to be able to access your nests and you don’t want them sleeping and pooping in your nests, I’d suggest keeping your nests really low and building a ramp gentle enough that they can walk up to a roost that is a little higher than your nests. Especially with the different ages you could have some issues with birds wanting to sleep in your nests. Be generous in how much roost space you provide. I’d probably build roosts high enough that the flying birds can get to but the silkies cannot just to further separate them.

Since chickens are mostly ground dwelling birds there is some debate about how much building a loft helps. You can get different opinions on that. My opinion is that it can help. One way chickens have learned to live together peacefully as a flock is that when there is conflict the weaker runs away from the stronger or they just avoid them to begin with. That’s especially important during integration or when you have a mixed age flock with some juveniles. A loft gives them another place to avoid the bullies. I don’t see any real problems coming from you building a loft as long as you have access, especially for cleaning. But with so many of yours being silkies you may not benefit as much as others with non-silkies would. If you can get a ramp they will use, maybe they will use that area.

If you do build a loft I would not have that loft over the entire coop. I’d have one section I can easily stand in and reach into the loft sections and the sections below the loft.

Another thought. You can build a loft storage area, good for your stuff but without access by the chickens.

Just some thoughts for you to consider, not trying to tell you how to do it. Good luck!

Thank you soooo much for all that information. I have a lot of different things to consider before starting construction.

 

[Kentuckyrain]

An interesting mix of ages. I assume you eventually want to keep them all together as one flock in the main coop?

Maybe separate for breeding purposes?

It’s always good to have a way to isolate some from the others.

Chickens like to perch. They will often fly up on top of something solid to perch, like the top of your privacy fence. When they get up there who knows which side they might fly down on? A simple way to prevent that is to attach some stiff wire to the top of that fence so it sticks up 6” to a foot. Attach it at the top of the fence and again maybe 12” to 18” further down. The stiffness will keep it upright. That goes a long way toward keeping them in the run. It won’t be that noticeable but if that is a concern paint it black or dark green before you install it, at least the part that sticks up. It will be pretty invisible in the air.

Your exterior fence seems to be chicken wire. I don’t know what gauge that wire is, how secure it is. It will act as a barrier and stop most predators but a larger dog, a big raccoon, a coyote, some really large strong predators can tear their way through it. The smaller the gauge (the heavier the wire) the more protection it offers. I can’t remember what gauge I got but I have some kennel wire that looks like that and I’m pretty confident in it, but the lighter gauge wire is not a tremendous amount of protection. You might consider attaching some heavier wire, maybe 2”x4” welded wire to the bottom 24” or so of that fence for added security. Chicken wire on internal fences meant to contain chickens works really well but there are some predators it’s not great against. Just a chicken wire fence offers quite a bit of daytime protection but no matter what else you do I strongly suggest locking them up at night in a secure coop.

Okay, will do.

I really like the idea of partitioning the inside to create separate pens, but I also like to have doors or openings that can be opened to make use of the entire area if you are mingling the different birds. That gives you a lot more flexibility in how you manage them. I also like to be able to stand up in any section and have enough room to work or be able to easily reach inside an area. Think about your being able to access and work in each area when you are laying it out.

Ok, I understand, agree and can do that.

Since chickens are mostly ground dwelling birds there is some debate about how much building a loft helps. You can get different opinions on that. My opinion is that it can help. One way chickens have learned to live together peacefully as a flock is that when there is conflict the weaker runs away from the stronger or they just avoid them to begin with. That’s especially important during integration or when you have a mixed age flock with some juveniles. A loft gives them another place to avoid the bullies. I don’t see any real problems coming from you building a loft as long as you have access, especially for cleaning. But with so many of yours being silkies you may not benefit as much as others with non-silkies would. If you can get a ramp they will use, maybe they will use that area.

I just recently purchased a barn that I can store all supplies in, I was just thinking it would be easier if everything was in the coop, but it is not important, I mainly just want to separate the pullets from adults and also have an area for the brooder/incubator.

Just some thoughts for you to consider, not trying to tell you how to do it. Good luck!

Thank you again for all info and advice!

 

[Ridgerunner]

& Fighting & pecking order,, I am not used to this pecking order,,,and not sure how to deal with it.

Social animals (wolves in a pack, cattle or horses in a herd, or chickens in a flock) have a social ranking so they know their place in the group, who has what rights, so they can interact peacefully. Actually determining that social ranking is often not all that peaceful though sometimes it goes so smoothly that you never see it happen. You are dealing with living animals and their behaviors so nothing is set in stone. Each pack, herd, or flock is made up of unique individuals and have their own unique dynamics. We can tell you in general what is likely to go on but these things just don’t come with guarantees.

When two chickens meet that haven’t determined which is the dominant in the pecking order, one will possibly peck or try to intimidate the other. If one runs away there may be a bit of chasing and a repeat performance to drive the message home but things work out pretty peacefully. If one doesn’t run away there will probably be a fight. These fights can possibly end in death or serious injury but in the vast majority of cases it doesn’t take long for one to determine they are better off running away.

If a chicken that is an inferior invades the personal space of a higher ranked flock member, often nothing will happen. But the higher ranked is perfectly within its rights to peck or somehow emphasize that the lower ranked chicken has violated chicken etiquette. Some chickens are just more brutish than others but once they get the pecking order worked out, these things are fairly rare. They can all stand around the same feeder eating next to each other. But when something like this occurs the weaker runs away and all is normally well.

You have a special case with immature chickens living with more mature chickens. Mature chickens always outrank immature chickens. Size isn’t all that important and different chickens mature at different rates so you can’t always go by pure age. The mature chickens are often quite vigorous in enforcing their pecking order rights when the immature invade their personal space. Some, not many but some, will go a bit out of their way to bully the immature ones. There have been plenty of times that I’ve seen pretty young chicks mingling with the adults without major drama, but a normal occurrence is that the younger chickens quickly learn to avoid the older to begin with. They form their own sub-flock. If the adults are in the run, the young ones are in the coop. If they are all locked in the coop the older are on the floor and the younger are on the roosts. Things like that. Again extra room is important when you have mixed-aged flocks. The immature need room to run away as well as room to avoid to begin with. I’m not just talking about adults versus chicks either. Older chicks can be especially brutal to younger chicks.

It sounds like you may have already quite successfully mixed various aged chicks so you can see this does not always end in disaster. There is a potential for problems but no guarantees either way.

So what can you do to minimize the potential for problems besides give them all the room you can? Housing them next to each other for a while (at least a week, longer is better) can get them to accept that they are part of the same flock. Some chickens (not all but some) will attack strange chickens that they do not recognize as belonging on their territory. Housing them next to each other where they can see each other but not attack each other helps with this.

Provide separate feeding and watering stations. The more mature chickens will often try to keep the younger away from the food and water. It’s a form of intimidation to enforce the pecking order. Spread food and water out so they can’t do that.

A safe haven can be a good thing. If you have enough difference in size, you can set up an area where the smaller can get through the opening but the older cannot. That way the smaller can get away from the larger if they need to. I don’t have a safe haven but I have a lot of room. If space is tight things the younger can hide behind or under helps a lot. Perches can give vertical separation. They need some way to avoid the bullies.

At what age can you integrate them? You’ll get all kinds of answers for this because we all do things differently. I’ve had a broody hen wean her chicks at three weeks and let them make their own way with the flock. She had raised them with the flock and had spent three weeks teaching the other adults to leave her babies alone so that might make a difference. I regularly turn 5 week olds through 8 week olds loose with the flock, but they have been raised in a brooder and/or grow out coop with the flock so they are used to each other. If room is really tight you might need to wait until they are practically grown to integrate. Integration has the potential to be a problem but many of us do it all the time and just don’t have problems.

 

[Ridgerunner]

So they can actually fly up to the top and over the privacy fence? It's 6' tall. What if I clip their wings? Could I do that instead of adding the additional fence to the top?

They may not fly up there to start with though six feet is not that high to a motivated chicken, especially smaller ones. You might want to wait and see. That’s what I’d do. I’ve never clipped wings and you will read different views on its effectiveness on this forum. It’s certainly an option. Your Silkies of course cannot fly out.

 

[Kentuckyrain]

& Fighting & pecking order,, I am not used to this pecking order,,,and not sure how to deal with it.

Social animals (wolves in a pack, cattle or horses in a herd, or chickens in a flock) have a social ranking so they know their place in the group, who has what rights, so they can interact peacefully. Actually determining that social ranking is often not all that peaceful though sometimes it goes so smoothly that you never see it happen. You are dealing with living animals and their behaviors so nothing is set in stone. Each pack, herd, or flock is made up of unique individuals and have their own unique dynamics. We can tell you in general what is likely to go on but these things just don’t come with guarantees.

When two chickens meet that haven’t determined which is the dominant in the pecking order, one will possibly peck or try to intimidate the other. If one runs away there may be a bit of chasing and a repeat performance to drive the message home but things work out pretty peacefully. If one doesn’t run away there will probably be a fight. These fights can possibly end in death or serious injury but in the vast majority of cases it doesn’t take long for one to determine they are better off running away.

If a chicken that is an inferior invades the personal space of a higher ranked flock member, often nothing will happen. But the higher ranked is perfectly within its rights to peck or somehow emphasize that the lower ranked chicken has violated chicken etiquette. Some chickens are just more brutish than others but once they get the pecking order worked out, these things are fairly rare. They can all stand around the same feeder eating next to each other. But when something like this occurs the weaker runs away and all is normally well.

You have a special case with immature chickens living with more mature chickens. Mature chickens always outrank immature chickens. Size isn’t all that important and different chickens mature at different rates so you can’t always go by pure age. The mature chickens are often quite vigorous in enforcing their pecking order rights when the immature invade their personal space. Some, not many but some, will go a bit out of their way to bully the immature ones. There have been plenty of times that I’ve seen pretty young chicks mingling with the adults without major drama, but a normal occurrence is that the younger chickens quickly learn to avoid the older to begin with. They form their own sub-flock. If the adults are in the run, the young ones are in the coop. If they are all locked in the coop the older are on the floor and the younger are on the roosts. Things like that. Again extra room is important when you have mixed-aged flocks. The immature need room to run away as well as room to avoid to begin with. I’m not just talking about adults versus chicks either. Older chicks can be especially brutal to younger chicks.

It sounds like you may have already quite successfully mixed various aged chicks so you can see this does not always end in disaster. There is a potential for problems but no guarantees either way.

So what can you do to minimize the potential for problems besides give them all the room you can? Housing them next to each other for a while (at least a week, longer is better) can get them to accept that they are part of the same flock. Some chickens (not all but some) will attack strange chickens that they do not recognize as belonging on their territory. Housing them next to each other where they can see each other but not attack each other helps with this.

Provide separate feeding and watering stations. The more mature chickens will often try to keep the younger away from the food and water. It’s a form of intimidation to enforce the pecking order. Spread food and water out so they can’t do that.

A safe haven can be a good thing. If you have enough difference in size, you can set up an area where the smaller can get through the opening but the older cannot. That way the smaller can get away from the larger if they need to. I don’t have a safe haven but I have a lot of room. If space is tight things the younger can hide behind or under helps a lot. Perches can give vertical separation. They need some way to avoid the bullies.

At what age can you integrate them? You’ll get all kinds of answers for this because we all do things differently. I’ve had a broody hen wean her chicks at three weeks and let them make their own way with the flock. She had raised them with the flock and had spent three weeks teaching the other adults to leave her babies alone so that might make a difference. I regularly turn 5 week olds through 8 week olds loose with the flock, but they have been raised in a brooder and/or grow out coop with the flock so they are used to each other. If room is really tight you might need to wait until they are practically grown to integrate. Integration has the potential to be a problem but many of us do it all the time and just don’t have problems.

Thank you so much for all this advice.. I really needed to know and understand and you have given me the information that I needed.

Again, thank you so much for all your time