NEED HELP WITH POSSIBLE BULLYING--LOST TWO PULLETS SO FAR

[igep]

Hi:

I need some advice about a possible bullying problem which has already resulted in the loss of two hens. I started out with two groups of pullets. One group from one farm had five sex-linked comets, two Rhode Island Reds, two white Brahmas, one brown Brahma. From another farm I got one white Leghorn, two Buff Orpingtons, and two Silver-laced Wyandottes. I also have a small rooster which I think is a Mille Fleur. The pullets are all about the same age, 4-5 months.
My chicken house is a good size, 8x6. It has three roosts across the width all at the same height with plenty of room for all to roost. I have ten nest boxes with outside access on the left side (six blocked off). None of the pullets is laying yet. There is a full size door on the front and a sliding chicken door in the rear. The coop is well contained in a 16x16 pen. The chickens do not go out of the pen.
The White Leghorn definitely seems to be the alpha hen and often chases the others around the pen. I noticed that some of the chickens, particularly the three Brahmas, one of the Comets and one of the Buff Orpingtons were sleeping either on the floor, on the hay box or in one of the open nest boxe, as if they were afraid to go up on the roosts, for fear of attack. About two weeks ago, I heard a large ruckus in the house in the AM. I discovered one of the comets dead on the floor, presumably from being pecked. All the other hens were surrounding her and sounded agitated. I could not tell with any certainty what happened. Two nights ago, the three brahmas stayed outside in an old cat litter box with a hood. Yesterday the Brown Brahma was reluctant to go in the house. I picked her up and tucked her into one of the nest boxes from the outside. (I wish I hadn’t!!). This morning when I went to let the hens out I found her dead in the same nest box. Again, I can not be sure who instigated the attack.
Please can somebody please give me some advice? I would like to get some more brown brahmas to replace the ones I lost but am afraid they may be too timid to defend themselves. Should I try to isolate the leghorn if I can even catch her?? I do not want to lose anymore hens. Please help!!! I have never had a problem like this before.

Peg

 

[janinepeters]

I am assuming you saw signs of injury on these birds to know that they were attacked by the other chickens. But even if you didn't and they died of some other cause, the space you have sounds MUCH too small for the number of chickens - 16 is what you started with, if I added correctly.

Could you clarify what they have for run space? Do they have the whole 16 x 16 ft pen (256 sq ft) to run around in, or is the 48 sq ft coop inside this space, giving them a run space of 256 minus 48 = 208 sq ft of run. Well, regardless, I suspect the run is totally bare ground by now, with that many chickens confined in it. If it's the typical trampled run, there is probably not much for them to do in there, and therefore it's not a very meaningful space for them....But correct me if I have it wrong.

In any case, you have cold winters in Mass., and your chickens will probably spend a lot of time inside the coop. In a cold climate, you really need to look at the space they will really use during winter, when figuring how many birds to keep. If the situation is as I am figuring, you will have very serious problems in winter - feather picking, and possibly more deaths, until they bring their own number down to something they can live comfortably with.

No, do NOT replace the chickens you lost. Chickens are usually much more aggressive towards new birds than to existing flock mates. Rather than add more birds, what you need to do is find a new home for about half your flock, or build a second coop and run. You've already seen that if you don't reduce their numbers, they will do it themselves.

 

[SkyWarrior]

The space sounds adequate to me for that many birds, but not so much if you have bullying. What it sounds like is that you have aggressive breeds with docile breeds, which makes for a difficult mix. What you need to do is take the bullies out and crate them a week at a time and reintroduce them into the flock. The bullies will be low on the pecking order and you can have more peace.

If you're not sure who are the bullies, start with the alpha hen and work your way down the pecking order. I personally would make stew with anyone who was aggressive.

Good luck!

 

[janinepeters]

The space sounds adequate to me for that many birds

A very general rule of thumb here is at least 4 sq ft per bird in the coop and at least 10 sq ft per bird in the run, but more space in the coop if they will be spending most of the winter inside it, as happens in cold winter areas. igep, you have just 3 sq ft per bird in the coop. I think it is very likely that you will see feather picking in winter, even if you successfully stop the bullying now by separating and reintroducing the bullies. This is what happens when they are crowded and bored.

Maybe it would help to read some of the threads on enriching their environment, how to prevent boredom, etc.

 

[SkyWarrior]

A very general rule of thumb here is at least 4 sq ft per bird in the coop and at least 10 sq ft per bird in the run, but more space in the coop if they will be spending most of the winter inside it, as happens in cold winter areas. igep, you have just 3 sq ft per bird in the coop. I think it is very likely that you will see feather picking in winter, even if you successfully stop the bullying now by separating and reintroducing the bullies. This is what happens when they are crowded and bored.

Maybe it would help to read some of the threads on enriching their environment, how to prevent boredom, etc.

Run space is subjective, IMO. If the birds are allowed at least 4 square feet per bird with enough space to get away from the other chickens, there shouldn't be an issue. The problems I've seen have to do with aggressive breeds and docile breeds. I've occasionally had too many chickens for space and no problems whatsoever. I've had small numbers of birds in more than adequate spaces (read large runs) and had bullying. The reality is that a mixed flock can have problems, even if there's good space.

Preventing boredom is easy. Throw cracked corn, corn on the cob, and scraps in the yard. A scratch block might be beneficial or may be a point of contention. Have a place to dust. If you can free range, free range them.

Bullies go to freezer camp or get sold or given away, just like excess roosters. You don't need them and can get nicer hens that cause less stress. I tell you, when I moved my bullies into a separate pen and put the new pullets in the main pen (EE mixes), life got easy and my bully problem stopped. I chopped or gave away my bullies and reintroduced those hens I thought might not be troublemakers. It worked. I've got a really nice flock of calm birds. I just have to cull the roos now.

YMMV.

 

[galanie]

Watch and see who is the big bully and get rid of it. Bango. Two problems solved at once: No bully, and one fewer chicken per your space. Layers are easy to sell and if they aren't laying yet you can still sell as "POL" or Point of Lay chickens, meaning they'll lay really soon.

 

[janinepeters]

I've occasionally had too many chickens for space and no problems whatsoever.

Of course. My point was that crowding is a risk factor, not a definite precipitant, of bullying. And yes, more space does not guarantee absence of bullying, but it does reduce the likelihood, in my experience. Breed is important, but there is a lot of individual variation within a breed. I currently have a bantam brahma who pushes around a full sized EE.

 

[Erin~TheChickenLover]

It does not sound to me like you have enough space for 16 chickens. I really don't think that it would be wise to replace the birds that were killed. They are dead for a reason and if you get more they will be killed as well. If the coop is in the run, you only have 80 sq feet of run space. That is adequate for maybe 8-10 birds. The coop is only 48 sq feet of space. That is adequate for maybe 12 chickens. You need to make the run bigger and get rid of 2 chickens, presumably the bullies.

 

[igep]

Thanks for all the replies!!

I have been watching closely for the past two days and so far the remaining two White Brahmas (Summer and Spring) seem to be comfortable in the run during the day and I haven't seen any outstanding bullying for the time being that I have been watching. But at dusk the Brahmas wait in the corner until everyone else is in the coop and then sneak in and huddle by the front door overnight. One of the Buffs and one of the RIR's sometimes hang out with them. Tonight I noticed the rooster trying to coax them out of the corner. He sees to favor one of the Brahmas even though she is one of the smallest. I also went and got a 25 lb flock block which seems to interest all of the hens. I had already been throwing food scraps (non-meat) and weeds in several times a day since I got them which they also seem to enjoy.

I will continue to watch and if I see Miss Winter Leghorn ganging up on anyone she will find herself in special private accommodations for a week or two providing I can catch her.

I'll keep you posted.

 

[donrae]

About catching a problem bird---just wait until night time and you can pick her right off the roost. Just hold her firmly and cover her head, use a towel if you need to but usually your hand works fine. That's how I catch any bird who I need to look at---I don't chase chickens down lol.