Need help with this puppy.

[DuckLover2399]

Maybe teach him some tricks to keep him busy? :idunn

 

[lishah2000]

One really good game for dogs is finding something. I always used a training kong, but the water kong would work as well. I used a scent in it at first, but don't think it's needed.

I would keep the dogs in the house and make a "track" for them and leave the kong at the end. (easy at first - would leave it where it was easy to find) Then let them out to track it. We called it "find it".

It was a wonderful game for my border collie and he loved it. As time when by I would try and make it harder and harder for him. Even putting it up on top of something or really hiding it. He ALWAYS found it even if it took him awhile.

My golden also loved the game, but it was just wonderful mental and physical exercise for the border collie.

 

[Elke Beck]

Quote:
I have to agree with Redyre Rotties on the head collars. I have seen them work, but some dogs HATE them. My wild child becomes hysterical if I put anything on her head, so I think she would seriously hurt herself if I tried to force a halter-type collar on her. I use a martingale collar for training her because it is very gentle and just squeezes her neck without any choking.

If you are going to try something different from a standard fixed collar, I recommend introducing it to the dog with the help of someone who knows how to make it work and has actually used the device on more than one dog. Just reading about it is not enough; you need hands-on help when you are using any equipment to deal with a serious behavior problem.

I cannot recommend crates enough. It is the dog's bedroom, a place to have a treat without being bugged by the other dogs, a way to keep the dog out of the way when you don't want them under foot, and a time out space when the dog is over stimulated, cranky or just needing the shine taken off his pants because he is feeling a little full of himself. Of course, my wild child cannot stand to be confined in a crate, and actually turned one upside down in her panic at being trapped the one time I shut the door, so again, there is no "one-size-fits-all" solution.

What I am getting at here is that you have to keep trying until you find what works. I don't mean try something once and then give it up because the dog didn't immediately become Lassie, but giving it a few weeks and see what happens. Observe how the dog responds, and make changes based on those responses. I have three dogs, and each of them needs a different approach and has a different timeframe for mastering new things. Oddly enough, the wild child (Golden/Shepherd/something houndy) is the quickest learner, but only if I keep the training completely pressure free, fun and full of treats. My street dog Chihuahua/terrier can learn things to either get the treats or get me off his back, but he is only reliable as long as it does not conflict with what he wants. The old lady (Collie/Labrador) is stubborn and needs to be given a reason for learning anything new, but once she understands there is a reason, she will learn it and never have to be taught again. Figure out what motivates your pup, and how he learns, and you will be able to teach him.

That being said, while it is a great thing to be committed to a dog come what may, the flip side is that as dog owners we also have to be committed to the safety of others, whether human, dog or other beastie. When you have a dog that has figured out that he gets his way when he bites, you have a dangerous dog. Unless you break this biting habit now, he will only get more dangerous as he gets older. Snapping at the vet is not normal for a 5 month old puppy. If your pup is not able to learn that biting is forbidden, then the only options left are bad ones.

 

[dainerra]

Quote:
this has had me thinking since yesterday. What can I say, I had insomnia last night

and had to ponder on something.

I think this comes down to researching your breed. It happens to a lot of people, so I'm going to hijack this thread and your comment to illustrate a point.

Labs are retrievers. They are bred to follow orders - go there, pick that up, gently bring it back to me. They are bred to have soft mouths, so they won't bruise the meat of the birds they are retrieving. Sure, it takes training for the dog to recognize the full potential and some dogs are just NOT going to have that soft mouth. But, generally speaking they are naturally a little more bite inhibited (naturally gentle with their teeth). And of course, all pups are mouthy. That is the way they know how to play, communicate, basically how their world works.

Herding breeds, on the other hand, are bred to boss other animals around. They work closely with their shepherd, but when it comes to the sheep, the dog has to make them do things. That is the point of the dog and if the sheep doesn't listen, the dog bites and nips and DRIVES it to do what it wants. It even varies by the individual breed within the herding group, so you have to know exactly what background you are dealing with to know how much effort you are going to have to put forth to control it.

They start with the stare (Border Collies are the Jedi Masters of the STARE). Herders bark and nip at the heels of their herd. If something is running or leaving the group, the natural response is to nip and bite until it returns to the group. That's why many parents believe that herding pups are aggressive. Kids naturally run around and all over the place. They don't "follow orders". They are naturally much more prone to nipping than other breeds - it's what they are bred to do. So, when a sheep (or person) doesn't do what the dog thinks is proper, the nipping escalates from air snaps at the heels to growls and actual nips.

I'll add GSDs as a special case under the herding group since they practice what I call "full contact" herding. They nip of course - GSD people actually refer to them as landsharks and it's not uncommon to spend early puppyhood looking like a human pincushion. But, when it comes to working sheep, the styles and genetics are completely different than most dogs. It is actually recommended to train with an instructor who knows GSDs or they think the dog is going to kill sheep. The GSD will circle (moving fence is actually their job) and keep the sheep in a certain area. Strays and stragglers are nipped and herded, like all dogs, but if that doesn't work GSD will move to the body block. That means, they will head off the runaway sheep(child) and tackle them and then herd them back to the area. If that doesn't work, the GSD isn't above grabbing a big mouthful of sheep(child) booty and dragging them where they are supposed to go. So, that is going to be something to keep in mind when the puppy comes home and to prepare for to stop the behavior and teach the right way to deal with people. There is also the fact that GSDs are genetically wired for civil aggression, that means they have to be willing to bite people. They wouldn't be much of a police dog if they had the temperament of the pit bull and never wanted to set teeth to human.

In the OPs case, it sounds like the pup has taken advantage of the lack of structure to set up his own little kingdom. He is keeping the subjects in line in the only way that dogs know, nipping and growling. A growl is a warning "hey, you better shape up" That is why a trainer is important, someone to see hands-on what the dog is reacting to and how to fix it. Also a good argument for purchasing a dog from a good breeder. They will honestly tell you the temperament of your pup and will match you with a dog that suits your needs and experience. They also provide a source of emotional support, training advice, and personal experience with the breed to help get your pup the best start possible in life so that problems like these don't end with the dog dumped at the shelter or put down.

 

[Beekissed]

Also a good argument for purchasing a dog from a good breeder.

Also an argument for getting a breed specifically for a purpose. If you are looking for a family dog, obviously this is not a breed to obtain...hence my advice to the OP to rehome or otherwise, this pup, and get a breed not so dangerous to their family and more befitting their family life.

It may seem admirable to hang on to an animal out of a sense of responsibility or duty, but that is merely compounding one mistake on top of another.

First, the breed was not the right fit. No one should really be getting a working dog breed without providing it the proper amount/type of work it requires for it to live comfortably.

Second, no one should be obtaining a breed known to nip, growl or lunge at creatures to "herd" them when one has small children in the home.

Third, one should make sure they have the ability to train the animal they choose. This pup is 5 mo. old and has had no effective training in regards to socialization with family groups...which is exactly where he lives.

There is another end to responsibility, and that is taking care of/correcting the mistakes one makes in life before they cause problems for others. This is one of those times, particularly if it is a choice between the life/health of children as opposed to the life of a dog.​

 

[dainerra]

none of those things you mentioned are un-fixable, even in this home. The dog isn't aggressively attacking children. He is being a bossy brat determined to get his own way. Again, following that logic almost any dog they bring into the house is going to end up with the same problem. Only a trainer who has actually watched the dog in person is really able to say if there is no hope for this dog.

Working bred dogs can be WONDERFUL family and household pets. Did they do their research beforehand? No, but that doesn't mean that it can't be rectified now.

I rescued a female GSD who had NEVER been socialized with anyone. She had known only a single person since she was 5 months old. Never seen a car, a child, even a man. In the end, we did have to make the decision to put her down because of her HUGE fear issues (as in she would go into a panic if you set the garbage can in a different place). But the strides she made were HUGE, even in the short amount of time that we had her.

This pup is healthy, smart, and willing to please. He is acting like a teenager (from her description) and just a little bit of work is most likely going to fix this problem. Since the dog isn't in danger of killing any of the small children in the house, I applaud their decision to try to give a dog they love a chance.

As for the I love him, but sometimes I hate him comment, I feel the same way about my husband at times

 

[Lothiriel]

A little update...

Riley has gotten much better these past few days at not biting and nipping when we touch him. He has mostly grasped the idea of "leave it" and if he gets something he knows he isn't supposed to have, most of the time he will shamefully drop his head, and when we go up to him to tell him leave it and take the object, he will let it go. There have been a few times where he's been in a rowdy mood and run away with stuff, having a grand time.

He's not quite as good with going where we want him to -- like get out of the livingroom when he's way too hyper. He'll throw a temper tantrum of sorts and fall on the floor, etc. But we have not once let him win battles like that.

We bought him a harness and walking him is so much more pleasant now! We took him out to the feed store yesterday and did a few more errands while downtown. I think his "problem" is that he is a herding breed and sees us here as his flock, so when he sees anything as a "threat" he tries to ward it off. Once in the park he growled a bit at some people who walked by, but I hit him (not hard) on the nose with a firm "NO!" That was the last time he did that. We met a couple other puppies in the feed store, and he was a bit upset about them. He barked, but it wasn't a mean bark, and he was not trying to attack. It was a little funny because whenever the other dogs barked, Riley would jump backwards. We are working on "Hush" to make him be quiet. We are trying to find people around here with dogs for Riley to play with. The lady who owns those dogs was doing the same thing, so hopefully sometime we will get together for a doggie play day.

Last night we babysat for a friend -- her 2 little kids (4 and 2) love playing with my younger siblings (10 and 7). Riley was very good. The little girl is the 2 year old he lunged at the first time he saw her. That time he was nervous/upset, he was out of his comfort zone, new place, new people, strange dog, etc. Last night we kept him leashed and he was perfectly contented to sit and watch the kids play, and every once in a while he'd go over and sniff at them, and whoever had him with the leash followed the kids so he could see them. The little girl is not phased at all by him -- she loves him. She likes to talk to him, and even said goodbye when they left. I'm thinking we just need to get him around kids more often, because he is really improving, in my opinion.

dainerra, actually we did do research beforehand. Like I said before, Riley is our second Aussie, but he is so much different than Ginger.


And please... I would like people to stop suggesting rehoming and/or putting Riley down. That is not going to happen unless Riley actually attacks someone.

 

[ladyride]

Keep up with the good work, it is alot of work & patience to get a dog the way you want them. To me with positive reenforcement he will learn how to be a really good dog. Always ask for help from a professional trainer to help you they have good insight to developing a good dog, their primary goal is to help you have a forever pet that you can control. Your high energy pup needs a lot of mental & physical stimulation that is part of what makes them a good working dog.Kudos for accepting the challenge.

 

[sunny & the 5 egg layers]

Sounds like you guys are doing a good job with him. He sure is a cute little guy.

 

[debilorrah]

That puppy is absolutely adorable. Did you get a crate yet? I will never regret crate training Micro. The little stinker gets in trouble and runs to his crate. If someone picks it and puts it down again, he has to go sit in it for two hours. I holler IT'S TIME FOR BED!! He runs right to it.

I never did have behavior issues with him, like you have had, but boy am I happy he is crate trained.

You have two very knowledgeable people here helping you: Red and Jamie. I would listen to them both, this is what they do. Did you find a new trainer?