Need some advice about my filly..

[chickbea]

Hmmm. What a little monkey she sounds like!
However, if she were mine, I wouldn't give up on her yet. Someone brought up sending her off to a good trainer who is emotionally detached - I think that is a good idea. Maybe a little time spent with another person who also holds the line with her will make her realize that you aren't the only human that has expectations of her.

 

[DFCottage]

My main reason for not long-lining now is that she needs to have the respect down pat (and all dangerous behaviors eliminated) before I try an advanced training technique like that. To answer the question asked, long lining is different from lunging. Lunging is with the single line that goes to the halter or bridle the horse is wearing. It can be used in conjunction with a surcingle say with side reins, etc, to help the horse learn balance. Long lining is with a surcingle, bridle, and 2 lines that go out to the surcingle and then to the bit. You can walk behind them once they've got it down and go down the road, trails, etc. I've always taught my horses lunging first, and then longlining. I feel it gives them a bit of a head start when you go to start riding.

I'm not going to give up on her just yet, as she is a sweet horse when she wants to be, but the defiant behavior definitely needs to be nipped in the butt before it gets and worse (or she gets any bigger! haha) I have been using a rope halter with her, but at the vet's suggestion I've moved to a regular flat halter with a lead w/ a chain. Last night she was respectful of it, so we'll try that for a while and see if it makes a difference. I only had to pop her once with it, but the rest of the session she was very good.

I had a local trainer offer to take her for a short period to see if he can adjust her with a few sessions, so I might try that. Still weighing all the options, but will try everything I can before I throw the towel in.

 

[Rare Feathers Farm]

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Yeah--I wouldn't long line her, either. That's what I thought that was...I don't do that with my horses. Anyway, yeah...the chain should help.

 

[patandchickens]

Just as a side note, there is really kind of a variety of things that (at least sometimes) go under the umbrella of 'long-lining'.

There's ground-driving, where the trainer is generally back out of kicking range, usually with the lines run thru a surcingle but sometimes run thru stirrups (up or down) or even sometimes just hanging free from bit to trainer's hand. The different setups have different strengths and weaknesses, and different sorts of hazards - for instance, with reins run through a surcingle it is frighteningly easy to completely accidentally pull a horse over backwards if it spooks, turns round and starts backing away from you (you need to go with it, *not* pull on the lines), but having the lines free from bit to hand poses a higher risk of the horse getting hung up in them if he does something unexpected. Etc.

There is also the more dressage-style (tho it is not done *only* in dressage) where the trainer walks right behind the horse, closer than in ground driving, close enough in some cases that you could rest your hands on his haunches. Obviously you don't do this til you've worked out any kicking issues

Again, there are variations with different sorts of surcingles or with nothing between bit and hand, for various reasons and with various pros and cons.

Ground driving on longer lines has the main advantages (IMO) of helping make the horse bolder, and providing a nice stepping-stone to being ridden. Obviously it's also good preparation for driving

Working closer behind the horse is generally done for more precise training goals, such as working on balance, engagement, control of the haunches, lateral work, that sort of thing. Not to imply it is not useful for young horses too.

Also, some people use 'long-lining' for what personally I would call double longeing, where the horse is kept on the longeing circle the whole time, but with a second longe line running to the outside bit ring (more rarely, caveson ring). I personally have never had much luck with this but then I am afraid that I am not especially great at longeing beyond the basic 'spin the hunter around to tire him out' sort that I learned as a kid

Pat

 

[lorieMN]

probably the best for you and her would be to send her to a trainer,a good trainer, not any old joe that "thinks" he knows what he is doing,some horses need a lot more dominating than others before they respect you,round penning is an excellent tool,but you need to be committed to the task before you do it,dont think if you have an extra 10 minutes that is enough,stay the course and work her through the problems,from the sound of her she WILL NOT be happy about it and will try and bully you out of it,a lot of her attitude is probably her breeding,and you wouldnt expect a very timid mild horse to take on big jumps,so there is a trade off to get those type of horses,but that doesnt mean she can get by with crap,you just have to work through it,and if you send her to a trainer they will also need to train you,because she may respect them and still bully you if you dont know how to correct her,round penning works if done correctly,because once they run out of air they start to respect pretty fast,and I dont mean chasing around with a whip,I mean free lunge,change directions every other pass or so and make her move her feet,horse are huge animals and so many people (I am not saying you do) cuddle and kiss on them so much they spoil them and then wonder why they have trouble,dogs respond well to cuddling and kissing,they love you more for it,horses do not,they take it as a sign of submissivness and will walk all over you

 

[Rare Feathers Farm]

Quote:
Well said!

 

[Momo]

Some good advice here. I will just add that sometimes we are too lenient with our own foals. I've been guilty of it myself although I should know better. You sound as though you are a competent horse person so I won't nit pick, but I would suggest that if these behaviors (kicking, crowding, general disrespect) are continuing, then you have not corrected her strongly enough or consistently enough. How would a boss mare react if your filly tried those behaviors on her? Probably a lot more strongly than you do. Those are dangerous behaviours and must not be tolerated. Draw a line in the sand. Don't niggle. Correct the horse instantly and as strongly as she requires, get the job done, then leave her alone again. Some horses are just tougher minded than others and need a bigger correction; I know it was true of the two WBs I raised, whereas my Andalusian filly is very sensitive and I find her wonderfully easy to get along with.

 

[DFCottage]

Great advice. I've tried to be as consistent as I possibly can with her discipline. While I do definitely like the horse a lot, I can't say that I'm totally in-love with her, which has made the disciplining a bit easier on me. I try not to baby her, and while I do snuggle her and love on her every so often, to keep up our bond, I also believe that the other side of that is just as important. Someone once told me that human kids will respect you more when they realize your role, and their bouandries. I am not a mother of humans, but I feel it's good advice to roll over to horse babies.

Im in the process of looking for a trainer in my area to hopefully send her away for 30 days and see how it goes. She needs to get out and see the world a bit. We show in-hand next week at the big local AA hunter show.. wish us luck! And thank you all for your wonderful advice.