Need some input: high protein feed?

[CajunFeatherz]

OK, looking for some feed pros here, especially if you're familiar with fermented feed.

I do FF for my flock of 120. It's a task, but it's not so bad. For the longest time I was using All Flock as my base. I also add crimson clover, scratch grains, BOSS, red wheat, rolled oats, lentils, turmeric, garlic, brewers yeast, Rosemary, kelp, oregano. Not everything every time, just a few things each day rotated. I use a minimum of 85% feed to add-ins. It's usually more like 90%.

The birds were looking good, but I thought they could look better - and I was strangely still not getting a lot of eggs. Something about them just seemed lacking. The feed store happened to run out of pretty much everything except layer and Dumor 24% starter, so I opted for the high protein. I know DuMor is not the most respected feed, but being fermented, and with great stuff to boot, maybe it helped compensate for the fact that it's junk - because almost immediately I saw an uptake in eggs. Birds put on what seemed like a little bit more healthy weight. It's mating season and feathers have been looking rough, but I have noticed their feathers seemed to perk up. More energy and (somehow) LESS poops.

Given all these factors, I'd like to stick with the 24%, but I know risks exist with too high of protein. My birds are looking great and seem healthier than ever, including big, healthy, beautiful eggs. They do free range over 8+ acres daily, and get a lot of exercise. My question is: Is it ok/safe to just go ahead and continue to use this higher protein "meat bird" feed for my entire flock, chicks included? None of them are meat birds, not that I wouldn't eat them, but they're mostly breeders and layers. Everyone gets fermented feed from 3 weeks on up, after a few weeks on medicated starter, which I'm about to abandon, I always have to treat new chicks for coccidiosis the moment they go into the coops. We're on wetlands.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

Should be fine. I personally don't ferment. Higher protein feed will offset any extras, and will optimize production.

 

[casportpony]

My only concen with a meat bird feed would be the fat content and the calcium, phosphorus, and D ratio.

 

[CSAchook]

My only concen with a meat bird feed would be the fat content and the calcium, phosphorus, and D ratio.

@CajunFeatherz if you would like to do some feed comparisons to check on this potential issue, The incomparable @KikisGirls has been hard at work compiling info on different commercial poultry feeds.
Feed brand NAMES needed

Link to her comparison chart is in post 1

 

[CajunFeatherz]

Thank y'all both so much for the responses.

Any signs I should look for to indicate low vitamin D in the birds? I can definitely also keep an eye on their weight! Thankfully despite the initial bit of weight gain it hasn't seemed like anyone seems overweight or sleepy / lazy, but that's something I'll keep my attention on over the next few weeks/months. I'll also check the fat comparison in the chart mentioned below and the back labels of the bags.

There is a 22% feed, but like most things in the chicken world it somehow is nonsensically priced at $9 more than the 24% feed and it's 10 lbs less. I think it's a Purina brand - which Purina owns DuMor I think, so it's hard to say if one is REALLY better than the other per se. Using a minimum of 150lbs a week and monetizing the birds, it's tough to rationalize that extra feed cost. Surprisingly, the addional ingredients cost me less than $5 per week to maintain. Hurray Amazon and local feed stores!

I will definitely check out the above post and see what's said about the feed brands and their fat/phos/D content, as well as other vitamins - maybe they skimp, figuring you don't keep a meat bird long enough to warrant good vitamins. (I should have checked into that.) In general I do know DuMor kinda sucks, but I'm hoping the fermentation process and good boost of extras help balance it out.

Is there anything with a good dose of phosphorous that might be good to add into the FF? Their shells feel and look better than ever, I do provide oyster shell of course and the occasional eggshells, and never citrus fruits. They don't even really get table scraps, because I know with the extras in the feed I need to limit treats. A handful or five of mealworms every week scattered amongst all of them is about it.

 

[lazy gardener]

Personally, I'd try a standard protein ration and still ferment it, leaving out all of the extra goodies. My birds get fermented 16% protein, and free range for all the rest of their goodies. Their feather quality and production are fine IMO.

 

[CajunFeatherz]

Well I've pretty much grown to this point with the add-ins. I've fermented all types and combos, lacks of combos and when I first started it was literally just the feed and water. This is definitely the optimum condition they've been in. I breed a lot of rare/unusual/show varieties of birds so their condition is noted on lots of levels, not just feathers.

Each additional ingredient was chosen with a lot of care; I own a pet food business and am a pet nutritionist, so I did a lot of preliminary research work and really believe in the feed and it's ingredients. But I know a really limited amount about avian feed compared to dogs or cats, and only what I've more recently focused on learning since getting into chickens a few years ago. So always looking to learn.

I'm primarily concerned with effects of high protein on kidneys, reproductive health, lifespan, fertility, laying quality, things of that nature, which I'm aware with protein is a risk, but not enough to know if four percent protein higher than I've typically fed (which was a 20% all flock) was enough to tip the scales. The information about other ingredients (fat, phosphorous, D) possibly being off is also of interest.

However I just checked the above referenced feed chart and it all seems to be within safe adjustable ranges (it is actually LOWER in fat! scratch grains can fix that in winter though.) of each other, so the only difference would appear to really be the protein. Thank you for the link @CSAchook! It proved to be just what I needed!

 

[CSAchook]

Well I've pretty much grown to this point with the add-ins. I've fermented all types and combos, lacks of combos and when I first started it was literally just the feed and water. This is definitely the optimum condition they've been in. I breed a lot of rare/unusual/show varieties of birds so their condition is noted on lots of levels, not just feathers.

Each additional ingredient was chosen with a lot of care; I own a pet food business and am a pet nutritionist, so I did a lot of preliminary research work and really believe in the feed and it's ingredients. But I know a really limited amount about avian feed compared to dogs or cats, and only what I've more recently focused on learning since getting into chickens a few years ago. So always looking to learn.

I'm primarily concerned with effects of high protein on kidneys, reproductive health, lifespan, fertility, laying quality, things of that nature, which I'm aware with protein is a risk, but not enough to know if four percent protein higher than I've typically fed (which was a 20% all flock) was enough to tip the scales. The information about other ingredients (fat, phosphorous, D) possibly being off is also of interest.

However I just checked the above referenced feed chart and it all seems to be within safe adjustable ranges (it is actually LOWER in fat! scratch grains can fix that in winter though.) of each other, so the only difference would appear to really be the protein. Thank you for the link @CSAchook! It proved to be just what I needed!

You are very welcome! @KikisGirls put a lot of work into that chart. I am sure she will be happy to hear how helpful it is!

 

[Lazy Farmer]

This is not a recommendation. Only our current feeding program which has been going on for eons and works for our situation.
We feed Manna Pro egg maker pellets (Morning & eve)
Our regional cost =$11.99 per bag (50#) but we do pallet pricing at 10+ a bag.
Brewers barley evenings as supplemental feed on the side. If you hook up with a micro brewery, it's 100% free.
When we mow, we rake up a pile cuttings in the run. Moderately. Occasional water soaked alfalfa cubes.

Our big breakfast egg house has a timer light system that kicks on at 5 am. It's not really bright, kinda like the sun rising slowly.
Our egg production is cranking right now.

The best way to keep your birds consistent laying is DON"T SWITCH BRANDS. Coupons/sales/new store grand opening sales.. Every time we have tried different feed.. the bottom drops out of production.
We sell a lot of eggs to local distributors. If we try to save a few bucks by switching feed brands, we loose big bucks by not having eggs, even though we shelled out money for cheaper feed..

Find a brand/system that works and do not deviate from the program.

 

[CajunFeatherz]

Completely agree. Switching is a pain and for 3 days the eggs drop, every time. Poop is also a nightmare. Sadly we have only two small feed stores, they are constantly fly out of feed, neither does pallets, and pre-ordering is...ehhh...iffy. And no discount, even for my good friend who is the local purveyor of meat birds. :/ no breaks here I guess. Sometimes we drive out to TSC which is quite far from our place just to try to stick with the same feed, but the times I have to switch, I go ahead and make note what works and what doesn't. You play the hand you're dealt feed wise, lol.

Based on the chart and the feedback, I'm going to make my switch (as best as possible) to the higher protein, keep an eye on their weight and shell condition, and do my best to maintain that feed as status quo. I can't store more than 5 bags at a time right now unless I wanted mice out the wazoo. Maybe once we do the barn cat thing, but I do NOT like finding chewed thru feed bags.