neighbor has too many chickens

[WalkingOnSunshine]

BTW I grew up in a family that always had 8-12 chickens. But we also had several acres for them to wander around on. So although I'm somewhat familiar with chickens, I was pretty ignorant about situations in which urban people have excessive numbers of hens in small spaces for some reason.

My neighbor is an urban person: to her, desertification & a small crowded yard seems normal & reasonable.

This has nothing to do with aesthetics. I wasn't growing anything but weedy grass in the areas they are in. But I am protective of soil, e.g. when I garden, I rarely leave soil exposed for longer than absolutely necessary so as not to expose it to the oxidizing effect of sunshine.

Honestly, you are making mountains out of molehills. This is absolutely not a case of "excessive numbers of hens in small spaces." Your neighbor has 3-4 times the recommended minimum number of square feet per hen. You're upset because her yard has no grass, but that's not "desertification" which is an actual word with an actual scientific meaning that has nothing to do with manual removal of the sod. Scratching up the grass is chickens doing what chickens do. The soil is not damaged. Were your neighbor to get rid of the chickens and till and plant grass, the grass would grow like crazy.

It's going to take an awfully long time for eight chickens to build up nutrient levels to the point that the yard won't support plant life. Heck, your other neighbors that use Miracle Grow and ChemLawn are putting far more phosphorous and other nutrients down than these chickens. Manures of all kinds are actually low in nutrients compared to the fertilizers people buy. The nitrogen in the droppings is unstable anyway--N has to be reapplied every year because it breaks down over time. Heck, I have a part of my property that has been soil tested at *5000 TIMES* the recommended amount of phosphorous because long ago there used to be a feedlot there--stuff in that area grows like crazy--the only thing the high P means is that I don't have to purchase and apply phosphorous there ever. Your town does not have a three chicken limit for environmental reasons, they have a chicken limit for social reasons. They think three chickens are enough for the chickens to have a flock and keep their little chicken sanity, but it's not enough birds to annoy the neighbors.

There is absolutely nothing, I repeat, NOTHING that sunshine will do to soil. There is no oxidizing effect. Crop residue is left on the soil to prevent wind and water erosion, nothing more. Cover crops are planted to prevent erosion and to add humus to the soil. The "oxidizing effect" simply doesn't exist.

I am not trying to be rude, but you seem very ignorant of environmental science, soil science and animal husbandry. And if you need my credentials, I was an environmental science educator for 13 years, have taken soil science classes and helped FFA kids with soil science projects, and am a certified University Master Gardener. My Master Gardener classes included college level soil science.

As I said above, your neighbor is doing absolutely nothing wrong. It sounds like she has happy, healthy hens in uncrowded conditions.

 

[chick-neighb]

Chickens evolved as a positive part of the environment & continued in that role, as did animals like cattle, until men upset the balance of nature with poor agricultural practices such as cramming too many chickens into small spaces ( such as MY backyard where I agreed to host 6 chickens & got stuck

 

[chick-neighb]

I'm really shocked at some of the responses I got here. Most of the people responding didn't even read enough of my initial post to realize that my neighbors chickens are in MY YARD (by my invitation): They assume I'm complaining about what is going on in my neighbor's yard! The comments of the god-believer & were beyond the pale. And despite the that that I was ASKING for information about impact on soil & mostly got insulted for being ignorant. My thanks for the few bits of helpful info that were provided in the midst of insults & false assumptions that anybody who had read what I'd written wouldn't have jumped to.

 

[chick-neighb]

Sorry about all the careless errors in my writing above. I was upset & hurt after having read one insult after another after another. Was writing in tears & trembling from the unexpected barrage very mean-spirited responses to my questions.

My neighbor & I had a peaceful, pleasant & very productive conversation about the chicken situation tonight. She readily agreed that there should be fewer chickens & will eventually reduce the number. We also talked about soil & plants & made some plans for small projects that should make the situation more sustainable.

I didn't realize this forum flames people for asking sincere questions about things like the possibility of buildup of nutrients in the soil (which Harvey Ussery warns about in his book The Small Scale Poultry Flock). I'm sorry I ignorantly thought Amazonian desertification starts with removal of jungle, tilling, sun, etc. (Guess what's next is you all attack me for saying being attacked hurt me. BRING IT ON!)

 

[chick-neighb]

And because I suppose I'll get attacked for somehow forcing my neighbor to reduce her flock: When I said she agreed to reduce her flock, it was because she had already decided there were too many before I talked to her.

I guess mentioning the possibility of too many hens is certain to ruffle feathers here. Wrong topic!

 

[chick-neighb]

And again for those who missed it, I'm not complaining about too many chickens NEXT DOOR. I let my neighbor's chickens USE MY YARD & had questions & concerns about chickens in small urban backyard spaces.

 

[appps]

I've not read all the replies but I would like to say I'm sorry if you have been offended. It seemed a fairly straight forward question aimed at finding the best thing for the hens? Only thing struck me from your post is you gave your neighbour an inch and she seemed to take a mile building pens

Okay so they will eat any area down to dirt after a while even without the nitrogen build up. Grass tastes yummy

The area itself is large enough from the couple replies i did read (i only speak metric lol) for them to live in happily its more a matter that the grass just can't recover as quick as they eat it. But they don't need it to be healthy as long as they are being fed a good diet.

I would suggest so you don't end up with dead areas that will never recover telling her you want to do a rotation method. A week in one pen, week in the other, week back in hers. In summer it should come back just like being mown. In winter when grass grows slower they may just have to spend 2-3 weeks in hers before coming back to yours or longer because once it gets down to dirt it won't grow back for a long time or will need turf/sod to get it back.

Oh and when in hers throwing weeds and kitchen scraps into their yard will give them greens and something to scratch about in.

Good luck!

 

[rachmickmurphy]

I've not read all the replies but I would like to say I'm sorry if you have been offended. It seemed a fairly straight forward question aimed at finding the best thing for the hens? Only thing struck me from your post is you gave your neighbour an inch and she seemed to take a mile building pens

Okay so they will eat any area down to dirt after a while even without the nitrogen build up. Grass tastes yummy

The area itself is large enough from the couple replies i did read (i only speak metric lol) for them to live in happily its more a matter that the grass just can't recover as quick as they eat it. But they don't need it to be healthy as long as they are being fed a good diet.

I would suggest so you don't end up with dead areas that will never recover telling her you want to do a rotation method. A week in one pen, week in the other, week back in hers. In summer it should come back just like being mown. In winter when grass grows slower they may just have to spend 2-3 weeks in hers before coming back to yours or longer because once it gets down to dirt it won't grow back for a long time or will need turf/sod to get it back.

Oh and when in hers throwing weeds and kitchen scraps into their yard will give them greens and something to scratch about in.

Good luck!

well put apps might i suggest another resolution get some of your own hens you seem to be a kind and considerate person sounds like you would be a great chook owner.

 

[chick-neighb]

Thanks for the polite answer.

Actually my neighbor didn't grab any space I didn't offer -- I enjoy the chickens. (She just added more chickens.)

I'm feeling more optimistic about sustainability.

We do rotate between the two yards, although both seem to be flagging at this point.

Think growing up around my family's small flock that roamed over acreage, my sense of how things can be might be different from those who have always been around city chickens.

 

[lazy gardener]

Sorry for the offense regarding this post. I just want to bring up a little thought that has not been discussed. Neighbors are inevitable. Good neighbors are hard to find. Maintaining good neighbor relationships can sometimes be a challenge. I'm not a lawyer, and have no legal back ground. BUT, I'd suggest that you do some homework re: giving a neighbor permission to use part of your property, especially when it comes to erecting fences on your property. In the muddy recesses of my mind, I'm thinking of eminent domain and right of way issues. I recall past discussions where if a neighbor uses part of your property with your permission for a certain length of time, they can claim it as their property. I may be all wet here, but, for your own protection, I'd at least do the research. I love that you're working with your neighbor to keep the chickens happy. As long as you're both happy with this arrangement, and there are no legal issues involved... you have the best of both worlds: enjoyment of chickens, fresh eggs, without bearing all of the expense and burden of care! Enjoy.