Neighbor's Dogs Killed 18 Chickens

[FrankHomestead]

So I Googled some (and now I'm an expert)
if this is true then the dog should never leave their own property therefore not landed in OP's property which I know you know, you stated that in other words.
I feel the judge would rule in OP's defense.
Had the birds waddled 1/2 mile to offenders yard and the dogs killed them THERE, I know without a doubt the judge would rule in dog owners defense and perhaps rule in a counter sue being they shouldn't have been there in the first place. I need to shut up already, I got chores to do! lol

 

[centrarchid]

So I Googled some (and now I'm an expert) and got the impression that, in general, property owners don't have a "duty to fence", only that allowing ones animals (livestock included) to run at large is prohibited. Fence laws (and a majority of the rulings I saw) are about keeping animals on the property of the owner of said animal. It doesn't look like there were any references to keeping other people's animals out.

This makes complete sense to me and I would be amazed if any judged ruled otherwise. I have a reasonable expectation that others will abide by the law and keep their animals contained. I shouldn't have a legal responsibility or bear the burden (financial or otherwise) of ensuring sure that they do so.

This a good start. A little research to support common sense. We appear to still be caught in rut where only threat comes from bad neighbors.

I have been on the receiving end of this type thing more than once. EXPERIENCE SHOWS EXCLOSURES ARE THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY TO GO WHEN KEEPING STOCK HYPER-VULNERABLE TO PREDATION WHETHER BY WILD OR DOMESTIC THREATS.

 

[The Moonshiner]

No.
We're stuck in a thread about someone wanting to be compensated for someone else's dogs coming onto their property and killing their chickens.
You seem to be stuck in an adhd type topic mood.you're jumping from one topic to another to another while the rest of us are in the original conversation.
You went on to victim blaming to the justice system and now to protecting flocks from domestic and non domestic predators.
No one else is on that topic or arguing it.
Like talking to a kid with adhd and a sugar rush......
I like blue, wanna ride bikes, I got a new shirt, hear that dog bark.....
All over the place and confusing as h*'ll.

 

[FrankHomestead]

Yes, the best way to protect your flock is by enclosing them.
And the best way to keep your dumb dogs from ripping little animals' throats out is by enclosing them, as well.

 

[jvls1942]

enclosing chickens sure puts a damper on
free ranging, doesn't it ?
I think the OP made a mistake when he did not just shoot the dogs. they being friendly or not..
then the dog owners would have taken him to court and he would be pardoned and they would be paying for some chickens..

 

[centrarchid]

enclosing chickens sure puts a damper on
free ranging, doesn't it ?
I think the OP made a mistake when he did not just shoot the dogs. they being friendly or not..
then the dog owners would have taken him to court and he would be pardoned and they would be paying for some chickens..

You can free-range in the total sense while using a perimeter. Starting with a little over 18 acres total, I have about 6 acres within a perimeter. Most of the time the birds use only about 4 acres of that and a greater percentage of the time only about 2 acres are actually used. The chickens themselves are not directly impacted by the fencing as they can get through if they wanted to. The free-ranging activities of the chickens is anchored to their roost and how far they go from that roost is a function the interaction between forage, cover and feed provided. Sometimes I do not even put feed out in the morning so chickens respond going out further yet generally they stay within the perimeter. Things can get tougher as flock size increases. Fifty adults I can keep on property, more than that requires promoting chickens to go in a particular direction. The bulk of my birds are American Games which are particularly noteworthy for their ranging habits.

Have you actually killed a dog for killing your stock? I have on more than one occasion and will a test it is not something you take like lightly even before any legal issues are addressed.

 

[centrarchid]

IMO this is the kind of twisted reasoning that has our country in such a mess. Ascribing fault to a victim. Justice hamstrung by political correctness.

Fault was ascribed to someone that was foolish or at least naive.

 

[jvls1942]

Yes, I shot a dog who was chasing my chickens.
then I called the people who owned him to come and pick up his carcass.
I had warned these people at least 3 times.
they did come for the carcass.

enclosing them to me does not mean the same as fencing them in.

I free range mine, have been doing so for over 48 years. NO fence.

you say your chickens could get out of their fence if they chose to. well then, many animals could get in the same way.

 

[Howard E]

Have read through this thread.....and about 100 like it.......with considerable interest. Few things seem to rile passions on BYC as much as what to do about the neighbors dogs. To shoot or not to shoot.......that is the question. BTW, this is not new. If you have ever heard of the saying "a dog is a man's best friend".....know it was uttered by a plaintiffs attorney as part of a civil lawsuit........one started by someone shooting a neighbor's dog. The case of Old Drum.......circa 1869.

https://www.sos.mo.gov/archives/education/olddrum/StoryofBurdenvHornsby

So this has been going on for a while.

What creates the havoc is the fact that animals are clueless when it comes to knowledge of property boundaries. There is no such thing in their world. Only the territory which them themselves decide is of interest to them. My parents keep an outside dog, one that is of no harm to anyone, yet she routinely roams at least half a mile in all directions. She turns up in the neighbors yards all the time. And that is just dogs, which tend to return to their home base now and then. Imagine where full sized livestock would go if not confined within a fence.

So what it boils down to is the fact that no dog is going to know where property lines are. They roam and do what dogs do. Good neighbors will know this, and keep them confined. Others simply don't care, or worse......assume that since it is their god.......sorry.....dog......it gets to do whatever it wants, and to hell with you. The fact that it kills your birds is your problem, not theirs. That is the jerk wad response....aka, the bad neighbors. But good or bad, you are stuck with them. You CAN shoot their dog, which may well be in your right, but often not without consequences. Bad neighbors being what they are, they don't forgive or forget. Bad parents can be a bit like this too. The fact that they raised little Johnny Angel to be some rotten little hellion is lost on them entirely. He remains "Angel" in their eyes and they will get all up in your jammy if you try to do or say anything about it. Same with rotten dogs.

There is yet another old farm saying and it is "good fences makes for good neighbors". What fences do is to establish boundaries. Works well for most farm livestock, but not for dogs, cats and other pets who can get past fences with ease, so they don't apply to them. Still free to roam.

So we now focus on our chickens. Most would not think of this way, but in many aspects, our chickens could be considered an "attractive nuisance" ( a legal term). Like a backyard swimming pool is to small children. It is a dangerous thing that children are attracted to. So in many jurisdictions, if you have a swimming pool, it has to be fenced in to keep children out. In the mind of a jerk wad neighbor, our chickens are the attractive nuisance that lured their dog onto your property. They can twist that around to say it wasn't the dogs fault, it was yours. Yes, jerks will do that.

So getting directly to the point, if you allow your birds to openly run free......with no protection from outside predators.......DO NOT be surprised to come home one day to find them all dead. Dogs will do that. So will coyotes, foxes, coons, etc, but accept it as a fact that your neighbors dogs most certainly will come on to your property and kill everything in sight. So if you want to avoid that, it's up to you to protect the birds from that threat. Yes, you shouldn't have to.......but it is a fact that you do. Yes, you can shoot the dogs AFTER the fact, but the birds are already dead, and of course, shooting dogs is most likely to set off all manner of drama to follow. More likely than not it will become a clash of wills between two hard heads. Not all that much different than the Hatfields and McCoys.

So bottom line is, if you allow your birds outside, either plan to yard them......confine them to an established area where you can protect them......or expect to find them dead. It is that simple. We don't think twice about building a coop to confine and protect them at night, and a fence is no different. It simply expands the range they are allowed into by day, and if you want to keep your birds alive, do plan on building a barrier of protection to keep them safe from all harm. Death....in one form or another..... is coming for them. Just accept that and life will get easier for you and your birds.

 

[FrankHomestead]

Have read through this thread.....and about 100 like it.......with considerable interest. Few things seem to rile passions on BYC as much as what to do about the neighbors dogs. To shoot or not to shoot.......that is the question. BTW, this is not new. If you have ever heard of the saying "a dog is a man's best friend".....know it was uttered by a plaintiffs attorney as part of a civil lawsuit........one started by someone shooting a neighbor's dog. The case of Old Drum.......circa 1869.

https://www.sos.mo.gov/archives/education/olddrum/StoryofBurdenvHornsby

So this has been going on for a while.

What creates the havoc is the fact that animals are clueless when it comes to knowledge of property boundaries. There is no such thing in their world. Only the territory which them themselves decide is of interest to them. My parents keep an outside dog, one that is of no harm to anyone, yet she routinely roams at least half a mile in all directions. She turns up in the neighbors yards all the time. And that is just dogs, which tend to return to their home base now and then. Imagine where full sized livestock would go if not confined within a fence.

So what it boils down to is the fact that no dog is going to know where property lines are. They roam and do what dogs do. Good neighbors will know this, and keep them confined. Others simply don't care, or worse......assume that since it is their god.......sorry.....dog......it gets to do whatever it wants, and to hell with you. The fact that it kills your birds is your problem, not theirs. That is the jerk wad response....aka, the bad neighbors. But good or bad, you are stuck with them. You CAN shoot their dog, which may well be in your right, but often not without consequences. Bad neighbors being what they are, they don't forgive or forget. Bad parents can be a bit like this too. The fact that they raised little Johnny Angel to be some rotten little hellion is lost on them entirely. He remains "Angel" in their eyes and they will get all up in your jammy if you try to do or say anything about it. Same with rotten dogs.

There is yet another old farm saying and it is "good fences makes for good neighbors". What fences do is to establish boundaries. Works well for most farm livestock, but not for dogs, cats and other pets who can get past fences with ease, so they don't apply to them. Still free to roam.

So we now focus on our chickens. Most would not think of this way, but in many aspects, our chickens could be considered an "attractive nuisance" ( a legal term). Like a backyard swimming pool is to small children. It is a dangerous thing that children are attracted to. So in many jurisdictions, if you have a swimming pool, it has to be fenced in to keep children out. In the mind of a jerk wad neighbor, our chickens are the attractive nuisance that lured their dog onto your property. They can twist that around to say it wasn't the dogs fault, it was yours. Yes, jerks will do that.

So getting directly to the point, if you allow your birds to openly run free......with no protection from outside predators.......DO NOT be surprised to come home one day to find them all dead. Dogs will do that. So will coyotes, foxes, coons, etc, but accept it as a fact that your neighbors dogs most certainly will come on to your property and kill everything in sight. So if you want to avoid that, it's up to you to protect the birds from that threat. Yes, you shouldn't have to.......but it is a fact that you do. Yes, you can shoot the dogs AFTER the fact, but the birds are already dead, and of course, shooting dogs is most likely to set off all manner of drama to follow. More likely than not it will become a clash of wills between two hard heads. Not all that much different than the Hatfields and McCoys.

So bottom line is, if you allow your birds outside, either plan to yard them......confine them to an established area where you can protect them......or expect to find them dead. It is that simple. We don't think twice about building a coop to confine and protect them at night, and a fence is no different. It simply expands the range they are allowed into by day, and if you want to keep your birds alive, do plan on building a barrier of protection to keep them safe from all harm. It is coming. Just accept that and life will get easier for you and your birds.

I really enjoyed reading your comment! well said