New EEs (including Roo) just won’t integrate with flock

[Rob_red]

Hey everyone about 2-3 months ago I got 3 Easter Eggers, one is a pullet and the other two are cockerels. I got the cockerel at 9 weeks and the other two at 6 weeks. I didn’t plan on having a second cockerel but we miss ID’d him.

I have been trying to integrate them with my 3 Golden comment hens the entire time with bad result. I have tried all of the classic tricks to have them slowly get used to each other. Starting with a kennel in the run, then partitioning part of the run, supervised run time, then having supervised free range time. I’ve tried to let them battle it out, it gets bloody every time and never seems to settle anything.

now they are all teenagers and all still getting beat up. Especially the biggest oldest cockerel . The other two (small cockerel and pullet) get chased and pecked but at least will get away because they are fast.

The big cockerel now just crouches in the corner and takes it while whimpering. It’s a sad sight and the hens won’t let up if I just let them do it.

today they had another battle and all three are bloody again.

Is it possible this situation will never improve? This rooster has splayed toes and seems a little off mentally, he makes different sounds than I’ve heard from any other chicken. Will he ever be able to live with these comets? Separating them 24/7 has become a hassle as we are essentially now keeping two sets of birds.

I was trying to end up with one Roo and 5 hens and know having two Roos and 4 hens won’t work out in the long run.

should I sell him to someone who has small pullet hens that he can take charge of from day one? Should I send him to freezer camp? I have a feeling this bird was sold to us because he has had issues from day one. The picture below shows his submissive position.

I miss my old sweat Roo who was our gentle enforcer!

 

[azygous]

I suspect space is the big issue here. Can you post a photo of your run and coop and give us the dimensions?

Trying to integrate very young adult chickens is maddeningly tedious since they can be combative and the older ones almost always bully the younger ones to an extent.

This situation requires time and space, but not the speed of light, to resolve. And patience. To integrate any chickens, it requires plenty of space, including vertical space (things to jump up on or fly up to). It requires multiple feeding stations, as well.

 

[Rob_red]

The Run is 6x18 and the roof is 8 feet tall, and the coop is 6x4. It’s a direct copy of the Carolina Coops design.

Also they spend the day with access to a fenced in area that is 25x25 that is attached to the run.

I have kept up to 10 birds in this space before that seemed content.

how much SF would you recommend?

 

[Rob_red]

Also I do have have multiple feeding stations and multiple roost bars

 

[azygous]

Both coop and run meet minimum space requirements for six chickens. What would help is to start by free ranging each group separately to relieve the stress. This would help the new ones to recover a bit and stop being fearful, which can actually trigger aggression.

Meanwhile, add complex features to your run such as an old table or install shelves and perches up high. I have placed food and water on an old camp table for the younger birds when they were being bullied. Adding these vertical features really helps.

 

[Rob_red]

I will try that, we used to free range them un fenced but they kept expanding their range and we eventually had to put up the fence. Now its hard to keep them mentally stimulated.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Some of what you describe is pretty normal in my flock, except for the beat up part. Mine don't get beat up. But I raise mine differently than you. My brooder is in the coop and my broody hens raise them with the flock from Day #1 so they essentially grow up with the flock. Different situation for you.

Even growing up with the flock, my juveniles avoid the adults until they are mature enough to force their way into the mature flock. For my pullets that's usually about the time they start to lay. For the cockerels that's earlier for a few of them and later for others. There is no telling when that will be with cockerels. Occasionally some of my cockerels and pullets mingle with the adults during the day but they typically avoid the adults day and night. If an immature juvenile invades the personal space of a mature hen they are likely to get pecked. It usually doesn't take long for them to learn to avoid the adults.

It's not unusual for mature hens to beat up an immature cockerel. It's as if they know he will eventually mature enough to take over as flock master and they want to delay that as long as they can. So they beat him up to keep him from gaining enough self-confidence to take over. It doesn't always work that way but it often does. Sometimes he has the self-confidence to beat up on them.

How do your three younger ones get along? Chickens are social animals, they do better with a buddy. Does your older cockerel hang with the two younger ones or is he alone? There might be enough age difference that he will peck the younger ones if they get close. It's generally best to not try to integrate a single chicken, it usually goes a lot better if they have a buddy. Your three may be buddies or he may be on his own.

Sometimes you have a hen that is just a brute. She goes out of her way to be mean to the younger ones. I don't now if you have one of those or not but they can make this really hard.

Where do these attacks take place? Is it when they are locked up in the coop or maybe the smaller run? You should have enough room outside for integration but if gates or doors are closed that room is not available. It takes more room for integration than for them to live together once they are fully integrated.

I don't know which of these things are affecting you. It could be many or just one or two. But it is not working. I think you will eventually need to get rid of one of those cockerels. I'd get rid of that older one now, whether that means eating him or selling or giving him away. See how much that calms things down. I don't know where the younger ones are sleeping, but don't expect them to fully merge until they mature more. Integration takes time and patience.

 

[Rob_red]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply @Ridgerunner

The older cockerel does get along with the youngin's. They came from the same place and have been penned together from day one.

The attacking happens anywhere they are within 10 feet of each other, happens both in the run and in the free range area which is 25x25'. I have really only been mixing them in the free range area because the hens like to corner the oldest cockerel and basically stand on him and continuously peck his head.

I will do the occasional experiment where I mix them in the run and have them feed in separate areas to see if anything is improving. Yesterday this ended with the two cockerels bleeding (the oldest one bleeding in a couple of spots) and the new pullet loosing some feathers. We are going to be unable to properly take care of two flocks long term so I really need to get this resolved.

Unfortunately I think the oldest cockerel is the main issue, he is such a flighty wimp it just kicks in everyone's prey drive.

I really wish I integrated bigger darker colored birds that could hold their own. The funny part is these hens used to get beat up by our guinea fowl and I USED to feel sorry for THEM.

They are currently sleeping either in a dog crate within the coop (which they are quickly out growing) or sometimes I let them sleep under and overhang in the run on a roost.

I know this takes patience but we are going on 3 months.... Is this the norm? I have friends that generally integrate over the course of a week. Granted they are integrating adult birds but my Easter eggers are about 4-5 months old at this point? Am I expecting too much?

One of the original Hens is going broody should I have just allowed her to hatch some eggs?

 

[Rob_red]

By the way I thought I should mention. I got the main cockerel because we want a good rooster. He has big shoes to fill, our last one was a gentle protector who kept the flock in balance and was a stunning bird to look at. This is another reason why this a frustrating problem.

 

[Ridgerunner]

the hens like to corner the oldest cockerel and basically stand on him and continuously peck his head.

That means they are trying to kill him. You mentioned he's not quite right in different ways. Sometimes a flock will try to run off or kill a sick or injured chicken. It's an instinct since before they were domesticated. A sick or injured chicken can attract predators to the flock so they try to get rid of them. I still think you will need to get rid of one of those cockerels eventually. You may try isolating him from the flock for a few days and see how they act without him if you don't want to get rid of him now. Removing him from the equation would be my first step, I don't see how he is helping anything.

Is just one hen instigating this? Sometimes one is the aggressor and the others follow her lead. If you can identify one as the ringleader try isolating her and see how the dynamics work out. If the rest can get long without her she may be the problem, not him. Sometimes if you can isolate her from the flock for a week or so, her behavior can change when you put her back. Sometimes, not always.

I know this takes patience but we are going on 3 months.... Is this the norm?

Younger chicks staying separate from the flock until they mature is normal. Them getting beat up when they try to stay separated is not. What typically happens with mine, whether they are broody-raised or brooder-raised, after the initial integration is over they avoid the adults and do not get picked on. When they mature enough they join the main flock, usually with very little or no drama.

I have friends that generally integrate over the course of a week. Granted they are integrating adult birds but my Easter eggers are about 4-5 months old at this point? Am I expecting too much?

Adult birds are different from adolescents. With adults they often have a bit of drama, maybe some skirmishing and running away. But it is usually over with pretty quickly when they settle the pecking order. With juveniles it is not over until they mature. Then they make their way into the pecking order. With mine that is pretty much without drama but it sure takes a lot longer.

One of the original Hens is going broody should I have just allowed her to hatch some eggs?

You can try if you can get fertile eggs. Your coop is very small to be adding any more chickens than you now have. That would be a concern. With my flock what I would expect to happen if she raises the chicks with the flock is that she will handle integration for you, but when she weans them they will be on their own between when she weans them and they mature enough to join the main flock. Much like your current ones, though mine don't have the drama you are seeing.

When my cockerels hit puberty it can get pretty wild. They fight some between themselves. They harass their sibling pullets. Eventually they interact with the mature hens and it can get more dramatic. But they work through all this and become responsible flock member when they mature. This often requires getting down to one male.

I got the main cockerel because we want a good rooster.

You've mentioned a few things that makes me feel your older cockerel will never fill those shoes. Start thinking of your younger cockerel as the candidate to take over. He may not make it either but he at least has a chance.