New Member Behavior Question

[CayugaDuckMomOfTwo]

Hello


Those ducks look and sound awesome

Thank you! They sure are amazing

 

[DukesDucks]

I also think it is a dominance behaviour. I learned the hard way that what starts out as cute little pecking becomes grabbing becomes painful, bruise causing bites. You need to make her stop now before she get older. I would stop touching her bill. Try ignoring her or pushing her away when she does this. I stopped hand feeding as well.
My ducks and I are still friends but I don't treat them the same way as my dog or cats. Sorry if that comes off as harsh.
You might want to do a search on dominate behaviour on BYC to see how others have dealt with this.

 

[CayugaDuckMomOfTwo]

I also think it is a dominance behaviour. I learned the hard way that what starts out as cute little pecking becomes grabbing becomes painful, bruise causing bites. You need to make her stop now before she get older. I would stop touching her bill. Try ignoring her or pushing her away when she does this. I stopped hand feeding as well.
My ducks and I are still friends but I don't treat them the same way as my dog or cats. Sorry if that comes off as harsh.
You might want to do a search on dominate behaviour on BYC to see how others have dealt with this.

Thank you! It'll be hard to ignore her because she's adorable, but I understand that it may get out of hand. I had a mark on my hand all day today where she clamped down.

 

[ruthhope]

They are definitely imprinted then.

I think these ducks are tightly bonded rather than imprinted with CayugaDuckMomOfTwo. They will have imprinted on one day old ducklings when they first hatched and continued that imprinting on each other.

I have a rescued muscovy who is tightly bonded with me as I resuscitated her when she was 2-3 days old. I hand fed and watered her every hour until she was recovered enough to go into my brooder and feed and drink from containers in there. But I didn't know her in the critical first day of her life so she wasn't imprinted on me.

 

[HollowOfWisps]

I think these ducks are tightly bonded rather than imprinted with CayugaDuckMomOfTwo. They will have imprinted on one day old ducklings when they first hatched and continued that imprinting on each other.

I have a rescued muscovy who is tightly bonded with me as I resuscitated her when she was 2-3 days old. I hand fed and watered her every hour until she was recovered enough to go into my brooder and feed and drink from containers in there. But I didn't know her in the critical first day of her life so she wasn't imprinted on me.

According to the Wildlife Center of Virginia "Imprinting is a form of learning in which an animal gains its sense of species identification". Her ducks see her as the same species which is why they are trying to show dominate and mating behavior with her.

 

[ruthhope]

"Imprinting is a form of learning in which an animal gains its sense of species identification".

I would like to read what the Wildlife Center of Virginia has written. The one sentence alone applies to bonding between mammals -- in much the way that human babies bond with their mammas. We would not talk about that as imprinting -- only bonding.

Attached is an interesting paper on Imprinting [research on imprinting] from Harvard University that Duck lovers might find interesting. For them, imprinting is the instinct to follow something that moves in the first 48 hours and the learning of the fine differences between things that move so that they always follow their mother duck not any other mother duck on the pond

for everyday duck keepers, this distinction between imprinting and bonding is just semantics. We kn

 

[HollowOfWisps]

I would like to read what the Wildlife Center of Virginia has written. The one sentence alone applies to bonding between mammals -- in much the way that human babies bond with their mammas. We would not talk about that as imprinting -- only bonding.

Attached is an interesting paper on Imprinting [research on imprinting] from Harvard University that Duck lovers might find interesting. For them, imprinting is the instinct to follow something that moves in the first 48 hours and the learning of the fine differences between things that move so that they always follow their mother duck not any other mother duck on the pond

for everyday duck keepers, this distinction between imprinting and bonding is just semantics. We kn

**Disclaimer**
I know tone is hard to differentiate especially over the internet so I would just like to add that I am enjoying this conversation and viewing it as a healthy debate.

Back to the conversation:

If you would like to get technical then we would have to determine what exactly was 2 days old or 48 hours. Most of the time when a duckling is said to be 2 days old it the end of it's first day and the start of day 2. Which very well could be within the 48 hour period. I guess we need to deliberate if imprinting is not only following mother, but also species identification. Both are crucial to the ducklings future development and often survival. Ducklings do not know what they are when they hatch and imprinting most would argue is not just knowing who to follow, but learning what they are. Here is bulk of the article and I'll provide the link below:


"Human-imprinting in Birds and the Importance of Surrogacy

What is imprinting?
Imprinting is a form of learning in which an animal gains its sense of species identification. Birds do not automatically know what they are when they hatch – they visually imprint on their parents during a critical period of development. After imprinting, they will identify with that species for life.

Imprinting for wild birds is crucial to their immediate and long-term survival. For example, precocial baby birds (such as ducks, geese, and turkeys) begin the process of imprinting shortly after hatching so that they follow the appropriate adult, providing them with safety.

Imprinting allows baby birds to understand appropriate behaviors and vocalizations for their species, and also helps birds to visually identify with other members of their species so they may choose appropriate mates later in life.

The timing of the imprinting stage varies from species to species, and some species of birds are more susceptible to imprinting inappropriately on human caregivers for reasons not fully understood.

What happens if a bird imprints on humans?
If young birds imprint on humans, they will identify with humans for life. Reversing the imprinting process is impossible – these birds are bonded to humans for life and will identify with humans rather that of their own species.

Imprinting on humans does not mean that birds will be “friendly” toward humans, nor does it mean they necessarily enjoy being near humans. Human-imprinted birds have no fear of people, and this lack of fear can sometimes lead to aggression toward humans. It’s not unusual for an imprinted bird to exhibit territorial behaviors toward humans just as it would with members of its own species.

Human-imprinted birds also frequently have a difficult time communicating with other birds of their own species– vocalizations, postures, and a fear of humans are all things that birds learn from their parents, siblings, and other birds. They are typically not accepted by other birds of their species, likely because human-imprinted birds display odd behaviors and lack the ability to communicate properly.

Ultimately, imprinted birds find themselves in a “gray area” – they cannot appropriately interact with either humans or their own species.

Birds who are human-imprinted are deemed unsuitable for release back into the wild due to these inappropriate interactions."

https://www.wildlifecenter.org/human-imprinting-birds-and-importance-surrogacy

 

[ruthhope]

**Disclaimer**
I know tone is hard to differentiate especially over the internet so I would just like to add that I am enjoying this conversation and viewing it as a healthy debate.

Back to the conversation:

If you would like to get technical then we would have to determine what exactly was 2 days old or 48 hours. Most of the time when a duckling is said to be 2 days old it the end of it's first day and the start of day 2. Which very well could be within the 48 hour period. I guess we need to deliberate if imprinting is not only following mother, but also species identification. Both are crucial to the ducklings future development and often survival. Ducklings do not know what they are when they hatch and imprinting most would argue is not just knowing who to follow, but learning what they are. Here is bulk of the article and I'll provide the link below:


"Human-imprinting in Birds and the Importance of Surrogacy

What is imprinting?
Imprinting is a form of learning in which an animal gains its sense of species identification. Birds do not automatically know what they are when they hatch – they visually imprint on their parents during a critical period of development. After imprinting, they will identify with that species for life.

Imprinting for wild birds is crucial to their immediate and long-term survival. For example, precocial baby birds (such as ducks, geese, and turkeys) begin the process of imprinting shortly after hatching so that they follow the appropriate adult, providing them with safety.

Imprinting allows baby birds to understand appropriate behaviors and vocalizations for their species, and also helps birds to visually identify with other members of their species so they may choose appropriate mates later in life.

The timing of the imprinting stage varies from species to species, and some species of birds are more susceptible to imprinting inappropriately on human caregivers for reasons not fully understood.

What happens if a bird imprints on humans?
If young birds imprint on humans, they will identify with humans for life. Reversing the imprinting process is impossible – these birds are bonded to humans for life and will identify with humans rather that of their own species.

Imprinting on humans does not mean that birds will be “friendly” toward humans, nor does it mean they necessarily enjoy being near humans. Human-imprinted birds have no fear of people, and this lack of fear can sometimes lead to aggression toward humans. It’s not unusual for an imprinted bird to exhibit territorial behaviors toward humans just as it would with members of its own species.

Human-imprinted birds also frequently have a difficult time communicating with other birds of their own species– vocalizations, postures, and a fear of humans are all things that birds learn from their parents, siblings, and other birds. They are typically not accepted by other birds of their species, likely because human-imprinted birds display odd behaviors and lack the ability to communicate properly.

Ultimately, imprinted birds find themselves in a “gray area” – they cannot appropriately interact with either humans or their own species.

Birds who are human-imprinted are deemed unsuitable for release back into the wild due to these inappropriate interactions."

https://www.wildlifecenter.org/human-imprinting-birds-and-importance-surrogacy

Absolutely, and an interesting discussion.

The wildlife center paragraph is very interesting and links closely to the info from Harvard taking the understanding of imprinting further than the initial identify Mamma Duck!!

I have 4 rescued ducks and three of them cannot be released to the wild. The fourth, a male muscovy, cannot be legally released to the wild in Florida where I live.

One is a male Pekin -- that was saved from a raccoon attack. It now has a damaged bill and so is with me as its original owners don't want a male duck with a damaged bill

My first is a muscovy that was found running round a parking lot in a storm late evening, alone and in danger of being washed down a storm drain. I believe it was within 24 hours of hatching living on its absorbed egg sack nutrients. It was picked up and taken home by a person who raises chickens, but it wouldn't eat or drink and the next day stopped running round chirping. I collected it on the third day when it was nearly dead -- I had no time for small talk with the original finders, I had to dash home and resuscitate the little being, staying up all night keeping it warm [it was cold] and getting it to drink and eat damp crumbles off my little finger every hour. By morning [4th day] it looked like it had a chance to survive. However of the 5th day it was back to lying face down on the stuffed toy companion in its brooder and showing no interest in anything, including food and water. I recognized a depressed duckling, and got it out to sit on my table between me and my laptop with a mirror. It cheered up, was initially excited by the duckling in the mirror -- so it obviously knew it was a duckling -- but within 5 hours recognized it was not a real duckling and only used the mirror to look at me sitting at my laptop behind it. Interesting self awareness by that little duckling.

So the rest of Daffy's story is that she thrived with me as companion -- I was frantically trying to find more ducklings of a similar age as ducky friends -- to 6 weeks old. Then she was introduced to rescued ducks at my local rehabbers, staying there for 4 weeks. Daffy then came home with 2 ducky friends: the two mentioned above. These ducks sleep together in my duck coop [Daffy's Ducky Palace] go around my back yard together all day, and when one goes off to explore the other two follow. They all take themselves back into the coop together in the evening. Daffy clearly knows she is a duck and so must have imprinted on a duck before she was found.

But she is also tightly bonded with me, as is the third duck I haven't mentioned -- another rescued muscovy that could not be released to the wild even if it were legal here. Daffy and the other muscovy know their names, come when called, like to be petted and Daffy is fine about coming and sitting in my lap while the other comes and nibbles me while I am sitting with them. I am avoiding picking up the other muscovy as that is associated in her mind with being put in a dog crate during her first nights in the coop and in a carrier for various journey's she has had to make in her short life. She likes her chest and shoulders petted though!!

These two muscovies are not imprinted on me but are so bonded with me they could not be released to the wild. Actually, there is zero chance of Daffy going on her own volition into the wild -- she is a big soft lump only interested in sitting by my patio doors looking into the house when she is not actively foraging in the back garden!

So that is why I differentiate between imprinting and bonding. I absolutely agree that any duck that thinks it is human is imprinted and that has huge ramifications -- including some trying to mate with their human and all being totally unsuitable for release to the wild.