new research debunks trad views on nutrition

[KRack]

this is false. There are papers showing that both laying hens and chicks select a balanced diet if offered all the necessary elements separately:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119347285
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119562289

It’s almost like they somehow instinctually know how to survive…

 

[U_Stormcrow]

@U_Stormcrow

Its right as far as it goes.

I'm not hugely opposed to high fat feeds IF I know the feeds was designed for it. Unfortunately, US labelling doesn't provide mKe or similar reference, so there's no way to know. Knowing that a range of mKe is acceptable for most, and that its moderately narrow, I'm opposed to addding a bunch of high fat treats on top of the (assumedly) balanced complete ration.

Just as I wouldn't recommend routinely putting a 1/4 cup of olive oil on every meal you serve yourself, or offering up the salad with a half slab of bacon. No matter how good that half slab might taste.

If there were one easy answer, there wouldn't be such debate - but there isn't, its an interconected balancing of pros and cons.

 

[Painted Calls]

Its right as far as it goes.

I'm not hugely opposed to high fat feeds IF I know the feeds was designed for it. Unfortunately, US labelling doesn't provide mKe or similar reference, so there's no way to know. Knowing that a range of mKe is acceptable for most, and that its moderately narrow, I'm opposed to addding a bunch of high fat treats on top of the (assumedly) balanced complete ration.

Just as I wouldn't recommend routinely putting a 1/4 cup of olive oil on ever meal you serve yourself, or offering up the salad with a half slab of bacon. No matter how good that half slab might taste.

If there were one easy answer, there wouldn't be such debate - but there isn't, its an interconected balancing of pros and cons.

I see the word "feed" and I tag you.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I see the word "feed" and I tag you.

I'm no expert, I just read.

 

[laboroflove]

this is false. There are papers showing that both laying hens and chicks select a balanced diet if offered all the necessary elements separately:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119347285
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119562289

I wondered about this…if they knew what they needed for the right balanced diet for themselves. It has kept me on crumbles/pellets due to the fear of them not getting what they need. I have wanted to switch them to a whole grain diet for the longest time but was scared to.

 

[Perris]

I wondered about this…if they knew what they needed for the right balanced diet for themselves. It has kept me on crumbles/pellets due to the fear of them not getting what they need. I have wanted to switch them to a whole grain diet for the longest time but was scared to.

do your birds have access to pasture?

 

[Ponyiqandhens2]

I thought all those things were already common knowledge at this point.

I'm sure almost everyone here would agree that fresh whole foods are better overall than processed feeds, but there are two major issues with feeding whole grains to BYC

1) A lot of people just make up their own feed recipe, which is often lacking in crucial nutrients. And since most chickens are confined to a relatively small area they have no way to make up for those deficiencies.

and 2) because a most chicken keepers tend to use large hopper type feeders it enables the chickens to pick and choose endlessly from what is offered, which also results in a deficient diet.

I agree wholeheartedly.. i guess equine nutritionist are ahead of the game because,correct proteins, balanced calcium phosporus, and appropriate fat for age,breed,condition,overall health and use can range from 2.5% in feed to 14%

I would love to feed grains..but i have grains and pelletted and extruded feeds for my horses..and the birds pick through and only eat this or that..rarely touch the corn,a little of the oats ,a little of the barley..but they love the extruded feed..realistically mine only eat feed when the weather is really crappy..otherwisethey literally free range eat grass seeds,flowers, bugs ,larvae, snakes,frogs worms and everything else

But i think most people understand and prefer whole foods

 

[Geena]

this is false. There are papers showing that both laying hens and chicks select a balanced diet if offered all the necessary elements separately:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119347285
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119562289

In the first study they were offered a low protein/high calcium feed along with a high protein/low calcium diet but both were mash, so that doesn't really apply other than hens will seek out needed calcium, which we already know.

In the second 1932 study it would be helpful to know what Missouri Ration is.
Also
"Cod liver oil was placed in the water
as a precaution against vitamin A and D
deficiencies"

The items offered
"Corn meal, Wheat bran, Wheat shorts, Dried buttermilk, Dried skim milk, Meat scrap, Alfalfa leaf meal, Bone meal, and salt "
are almost entirely processed and not whole foods.

And at 8 weeks
"the cafeteria chicks were much more variable
in size"

Very interesting but not definitive IMO.

 

[laboroflove]

do your birds have access to pasture?

Due to predator issues we have to keep them in their coop/run 95% of the time. There are days they get let out but most days it’s only in the later afternoon. So to answer your question, yes but not free roaming.

We are going to make some changes to the run soon. It will be used as a compost system and there will also be a yard for them to get some “free time” in.

 

[Geena]

i guess equine nutritionist are ahead of the game because,correct proteins, balanced calcium phosporus, and appropriate fat for age,breed,condition,overall health and use can range from 2.5% in feed to 14%

The biggest difference lies in the style of feeding horses vs chickens. If you gave most any animal free choice big bins of various foods to choose from, a large portion of them would most likely eat themselves to obesity and death, just as many humans do. And we supposedly "know better" too.