new research debunks trad views on nutrition

[Perris]

It is a proportion so 3 kg per tonne doesn't mean you can't make more than a tonne at a time or less than a tonne at a time. You just need to adjust each by the same percentage.

My understanding is that this is not true, because

When you get really small scale, the margin of error gets too big - for example, it is hard to measure accurately enough.

and 3kg/tonne is where these professional growers and suppliers of parent stock for commercial laying hens set the lower limit. These additives should be going in truly tiny amounts, and just the right amount of each and every one of them. They are concentrates.

 

[Perris]

most people who make home made feed don't bother with the pre-mix, and as result, have no idea whatsoever if their dinosaurs are getting the vitamins and minerals they need

Assessment of health and at least adequate nutrition does not depend on doing math before feeding. That same guide I cited for the proportion of premix to base (and we can and should talk about what may or may not be in the base separately) says this about selection of breeding males:

"At the start of lay, the percentage of males should be reduced to between 8% and 10% of first quality males. These males should have the following characteristics:• Uniform bodyweight • Good muscle tone and body condition• Free of physical abnormalities (alert and active) • Bright and red combs• Strong, straight legs and toes • Comb, wattles and vent showing evidence of mating activity (only during the production period) • Well feathered • Good upright posture
Extra males should be kept in a separate pen to be introduced as replacements in case of male mortality or culls. The mating ratio during the production period should be reviewed weekly. Based on assessments of physical condition and bodyweight, any males considered to be non-working should be removed from the flock in line with these recommendations:• Select all lame males with footpad problems, bumble foot, curled toes etc.• Select males with dull combs.• Non working males will often hide in the nests.• Active males have a large, wet and red cloaca and wet vent area.• Productive males are always alert, well spread between the females and have red combs."

(The uniform bodyweight is entirely for the benefit of the management, on the explicit assumption that if the flock is uniform what works for one is more likely to work for all.)
That's a formal extended version of bright eyed and bushy tailed. You can tell if the diet (and management) is good by looking at the birds and their offspring.

 

[Perris]

In all this talk of synthetic chemical additives to highly processed industrial food, I am reminded of post 1

Myths that have benefited the food industry and which we should now dispel include: all calories are equal, low-calorie foods are good, high-fat foods are bad, artificial sweeteners are healthy, high levels of processing are harmless, and food and vitamin supplements are as good as real food.

 

[saysfaa]

My understanding is that this is not true, because

and 3kg/tonne is where these professional growers and suppliers of parent stock for commercial laying hens set the lower limit. These additives should be going in truly tiny amounts, and just the right amount of each and every one of them. They are concentrates.

The quote you gave said "per"; it did not say "and."

 

[Perris]

The quote you gave said "per"; it did not say "and."

and what about the "have to be mixed at a minimum level of" ?

 

[saysfaa]

"Minimum level" not "minimum amounts"

 

[Perris]

At your own risk.

We're losing sight of the real issues again. Real food with natural nutrients is better than supplements synthesized in a laboratory.

 

[NatJ]

and what about the "have to be mixed at a minimum level of" ?

That is how you mix them, not how you measure them.

A premix just means those things are mixed with each other before they are mixed with other things.

To make your own premix, you just mix all the tiny amounts, and some of the other ingredients, until you have a batch of the right size to mix into the rest of the ingredients.

For the commercial example, if all the vitamins and minerals add up to a single kilogram per tonne, they would need to add at least 2 kilograms of other ingredients (anything else in the recipe) and mix that in a small mixer to make their premix. Then the premix can be added to the other ingredietns in the big mixer that holds an entire tonne.

For a small home method, one could put the tiny amounts in a bowl and stir them together, then add some of the other ingredients and mix again, then stir this premix into the big bucket or bathtub or other mixing container.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Assessment of health and at least adequate nutrition does not depend on doing math before feeding. That same guide I cited for the proportion of premix to base (and we can and should talk about what may or may not be in the base separately) says this about selection of breeding males:

As I keep emphasizing, the people doing this at home AREN'T looking at what may or may not be in the base. They aren't even getting crude protein right most of the time. And knowing nothing else, they make no effort to even pretend to address the rest by adding a premix.

Nor would I rely on them to accurately assess the health of their birds.

 

[Krugerrand]

here's something I just read that pertains to the discussions a bit. It's from a human health perspective, but does discuss animal wellbeing also. (and really, that is sort of consistent with the OP.)

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/.../collagen-and-gelatin-for-optimal-health.aspx

By fixating on a flawed paradigm, we’ve ended up with what Peat referred to as “monstrous distortion of the official dietary recommendations.” For example, most studies trying to determine the nutritional requirements for protein were done for the agricultural industry and were designed to identify the cheapest way to achieve maximum growth in the shortest time possible.

But maximizing growth doesn’t mean you’re also maximizing health and longevity. Quite the contrary. Polyunsaturated fats (PUFAs) like linoleic acid (LA), for example, produce rapid weight gain in young animals, which translates into rapid profits. But if we’re looking for optimal human health, that’s not what we want. And, indeed, there’s overwhelming evidence showing excessive PUFA consumption is wrecking human health.

Similarly, amino acids in proteins were defined as “essential” based on their contribution of growth in animals, again ignoring factors such as longevity, brain development and optimal health.

Articles only stay up for 2 days, so I'll attach a PDF for convenience of those interested.