Newbie Questions

[3KillerBs]

Newbie question time:

When should I candle?

I've got the general impression that keeping my hands OFF and letting nature do it's thing is probably a good idea, but I see people posting a lot of photos at different stages.

I didn't candle before setting the eggs, was that an error or a "not ideal, but you'll catch shell issues later" sort of thing?

When I candle, what are the logistics of taking the eggs out of the incubator, using the candler on the incubator's lid, and getting them back into the incubator?

My first thought is:

1. Sanitize a foam egg carton, which will provide both cushioning and insulation,
2. Move all the eggs into the carton,
3. Close the incubator to keep it warm,
4. Candle the eggs with all deliberate speed, putting them back into the carton after candling (2nd carton for dubious eggs that need more attention?),
5. Move all the eggs back into the incubator.

Obviously, when I take the lid off a Nurture Right 360 all the heat and humidity leave the unit, but the eggs will hold temperature for a time and the humidity should recover quickly once the unit is re-closed, right?

Is there a readily-available, life-size when printed on 8.5x11 paper, image for the air cell chart that I could use for direct comparison when I candle?

Is it worthwhile to trace the air cell onto the shell or is that an increase of time out of incubator to little purpose?

I did weigh the eggs and record the weights both on the shell and in a separate notebook. Should I be weighing at each candling?

How much variation in humidity is acceptable?

The temperature is holding solidly, but I'm seeing swings between about 47% and 55% humidity. I've got the unit in the most environmentally-stable part of the house and I'm making sure that the water well doesn't run dry.

Not that there's anything I can do about the fact that it's spring in the south, with the weather varying between below-freezing nights, clear and dry to over 70 and raining from Monday to Wednesday of the same week -- the house's HVAC system responds accordingly.

 

[RubelliteRose]

I am by no means an expert on incubator hatching, but I can answer a couple of your questions
I wouldn't worry about not candling before setting your eggs since you are hatching your own. It is more of a concern with shipped eggs to see if the air cells are detached. You can check for shell issues with your first candle. My eggs were shipped and all had detached air cells, so I tried to disturb mine as little as possible. I candled at days 7, 14 and 18.
To be honest, I'm not sure it matters if you remove all the eggs at once or remove only a few at a time and let the incubator stabilize before doing another batch. I think your plan sounds good though. My incubator's temp and humidity didn't drop a whole lot when I opened it, but I was incubating late in the summer and we tend to keep the house fairly warm anyway.
For the air cell chart, I found this article: https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/turkey-incubation-and-hatching-guide.65107/

Good luck with your hatch and I look forward to seeing how it goes!

 

[3KillerBs]

I am by no means an expert on incubator hatching, but I can answer a couple of your questions
I wouldn't worry about not candling before setting your eggs since you are hatching your own. It is more of a concern with shipped eggs to see if the air cells are detached. You can check for shell issues with your first candle. My eggs were shipped and all had detached air cells, so I tried to disturb mine as little as possible. I candled at days 7, 14 and 18.
To be honest, I'm not sure it matters if you remove all the eggs at once or remove only a few at a time and let the incubator stabilize before doing another batch. I think your plan sounds good though. My incubator's temp and humidity didn't drop a whole lot when I opened it, but I was incubating late in the summer and we tend to keep the house fairly warm anyway.
For the air cell chart, I found this article: https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/turkey-incubation-and-hatching-guide.65107/
View attachment 2997690
Good luck with your hatch and I look forward to seeing how it goes!

Thank you.

What I'm looking for is an image that will print at life-size so I can more easily compare the eggs.

 

[RubelliteRose]

When I printed it up last summer, I was able to use print friendly to eliminate all the page text and shrink it down a little to make it closer to my egg sizes. 100% is too big, but I can't remember what percentage I used. You could also try copy and pasting into Word or paint program and then manipulate the size that way. As long as you shrink or enlarge the entire image, the proportions should stay the same.

 

[3KillerBs]

Any more input from anyone?

 

[Skyle]

The rule of thumb is to candle on day 7 for fertility, on day 14 to check if some embryo quit and on day 18 to check on the aircells/other quitters before lockdown.
If the eggs are shipped I would candle also before putting the eggs in the incubator to see if there are detached air cells or even small fractures in the shell.

I think it depends a lot on the incubator (especially on how long it takes to restore humidity and temperature after you finish candling, but also on the temperature in the room where are you candling and how long does it take you to candle all the eggs)
With mine, I simply open the lid and candle egg by egg with the open incubator. It doesn't take so much time since it holds only 16 eggs.
I've candled some batches even everyday (unless during lockdown) and all of them hatched just fine, even the supermarket quail eggs.
I don't think opening the incubator for few minutes, even daily, could damage the embryos. Broodies spend 15-30 minutes everyday off the nest to eat, drink, poop and dustbath. This if your incubator can build up again the temperature and the humidity in a few minutes time. If it takes many minutes or even hours I would open it as little as possible and put the eggs in a carton for candling, like as you said.
I would keep a pencil in hand so you can mark if there's something unusual in some eggs, or if you have some doubts.

47%-55% doesn't seem a big variation for me and it should be fine.
Humidity control is needed to avoid the aircells to become too big or remain too small. If you check on the aircells and you see that they are like the ones in the photos posted by @RubelliteRose you don't have to change anything. If the aircells are a bit too big keep the humidity a bit lower. If the aircells are a bit too small keep the humidity a bit higher. Then check the cells again during the next candling.

 

[Ridgerunner]

When should I candle?

When you want to. What information do you hope to get and what will you do with the information you get?

I typically set 28 of my own eggs and don't candle before I set them. When I've collected the 28 clean "normal" eggs I'm going to incubate I just start them. If I were hatching shipped eggs I might do differently. If I had extra eggs to choose between to try to hatch you might candle to look at porosity or for cracks. But I'm not making any decisions on what I'm going to do so I don't bother.

I typically candle at 7 days but that's just for curiosity. I don't recall ever removing an egg at this stage based on candling. I usually put a check mark, either red or black sharpie, to register my opinion on whether it will hatch or not.

My next time to candle is when I'm going into lockdown. I remove the obvious quitters to make more room in the incubator.

When I candle, what are the logistics of taking the eggs out of the incubator, using the candler on the incubator's lid, and getting them back into the incubator?

You don't want to get in a hurry and drop eggs or damage them. Pick a time you can work steady without breaks, but don't rush.

I use a handheld flashlight and candle in a dark room that's reasonably warm, probably in the 70's Fahrenheit. Typical room temperature. My incubator is a styrofoam forced air. I unplug the incubator, take the lid off, and set it aside. Then I remove the eggs one by one and candle them, then put them in separate boxes that has towels in them, just trying to cushion them.

I number the eggs before incubation starts with "1" being the first laid and "28" being the last laid. That way I can keep track if individual eggs as they hatch so I know which ones took forever to zip after pip and such as that, plus did how long they were stored have any real effect on when they hatched. Things like that.

After they are candled I put them back into the incubator. On Day 7 I put them all back but mix them up in the trays so they are in different locations than they initially were, in case there are differences in conditions inside the incubator. I have not noticed any differences based on location in my forced air incubator but it's easy to do wo why not. For lockdown I remove the turners, remove any eggs that are clear, and do what needs to be done for lockdown. Then I put the lid back on and plug it back in.

Is there a readily-available, life-size when printed on 8.5x11 paper, image for the air cell chart that I could use for direct comparison when I candle?
Is it worthwhile to trace the air cell onto the shell or is that an increase of time out of incubator to little purpose?

What are you going to do with the information? Are you going to change the humidity based on the results? Nothing wrong with curiosity so you can see for yourself.

I did weigh the eggs and record the weights both on the shell and in a separate notebook. Should I be weighing at each candling?

What are you going to do with the information? Are you going to change the humidity based on the results? Nothing wrong with curiosity so you can see for yourself.

How much variation in humidity is acceptable?

Instantaneous humidity is pretty unimportant, it's average humidity that counts. Humidity is all about how much moisture do the eggs lose from when they are laid until they hatch. They can lose moisture before they are set. I manage humidity in mine by putting water in certain reservoirs and leaving others empty. It's a pretty imprecise method and may take days before they are dry and it's time to refill them.

I've never calibrated my hygrometer, never saw the need. Through some trial and error I've determined that my sweet spot for humidity is when that hygrometer reads around 40% humidity. The real humidity could be higher or lower. With my incubator, where I incubate, and with that hygrometer as long as it averages around 40% I'm good.

If that hygrometer reads high for a few days when I redo the humidity I run it low for a few days, trying to balance it out. It's not a precise method but close enough for me.

I'm relatively laid back in my approach. Could I get better hatches if I worked a lot harder? Maybe, maybe not. There can be a lot of variation in one hatch to the next, whether incubator or broody. My goal is to hatch 40 to 45 chicks a year and never run out of meat in the freezer. I can easily meet my goals between the incubator and my broody hens without working harder and stressing out more. Others have different goals.

 

[Obsessed With Silkies]

I ordered some hatching eggs from a professional breeder a couple of weeks ago and one of the things he said was to not candle the eggs at all. Because you can never 100% tell if the egg is good or bad until they hatch. I'd wait until you don't see alot of movement before you candle them.

 

[3KillerBs]

What information do you hope to get and what will you do with the information you get?

I want to make sure the eggs are developing and that I'm not incubating a stench bomb.

And I would like to have a moment to marvel at the miracle that is a new life developing.

What are you going to do with the information? Are you going to change the humidity based on the results?

That's the theory at least.

 

[Skyle]

I ordered some hatching eggs from a professional breeder a couple of weeks ago and one of the things he said was to not candle the eggs at all. Because you can never 100% tell if the egg is good or bad until they hatch. I'd wait until you don't see alot of movement before you candle them.

I don't really agree. This may be right for dark-shelled breeds, which are really difficult to candle. With a good light/torch/candler you can be easly sure with light shelled eggs. Eggs usually don't rot in the incubator (broodies don't discharge unfertile eggs, but sometimes can happen that an eggs gets contaminated and bacteria grow in it). By throwing away non fertile or dead eggs you avoid any risk because a rotten egg which explodes in the incubator it's awful. Obviously you have to be sure on what you are doing, so if you see completely clear eggs or eggs with blood rings. If you aren't sure just leave them in the incubator for more days.

PS I respect everyone's opinion, be free to do what do you want. Many people have different experiences and by trying and trying everybody learns how to do things to have better results.