Newborn goat struggling

[goats-n-oats]

Hey @iomine think you were right. They were both avoiding the hot plate today.
For udder maintenance would you recommend wiping off all the does' udders daily with a soapy washcloth, even if they are only being milked by their kids? There has been a lot of mastitis over the past year. I wonder if it's because I track manure from different animals around the barn on my boots.

 

[Stravager]

I've heard of a trick where you feed the doe some of her own milk to help with mastitis, but I think it depends on the type.... you can also try a warm compress on her udder (possibly epsom salts and some people use peppermint oil but I can't really recommend that?). Is there any sort of gunk coming out of her teats? If she's still got milk coming out then you can try completely stripping the teats during milking to try and clear up any blocks. It can be painful or uncomfortable for the doe, though.
Mastitis can be caused by poor milking hygiene, so try and keep their bedding as clean as you can, and also if you're handling any of the does udders wash them or use a teat dip first. And have clean hands if you can manage it.

 

[cassie]

You'll want to milk the goat and bottle feed the kids if they can't reach her teats. Colostrum is important and they need way more than a few cc's of it, so if you can milk the mom to get all of that super thick goodness out, that will be best. It's vital for them to have it in the first 24 hours - sooner is better. The one who got stuck you might want to put under a heat lamp to help with shock, and again, a lot of colostrum if you can get it.
If for some reason you can't milk the mom then you need to get some store bought colostrum mix (specifically made for goats, since regular bovine colostrum doesn't have enough fat and they need over double the amount to make up the difference), and get it in them. Milk replacer too.
Edit: is mom interested in the babies at all? Trying to encourage them to nurse? Did she lick them clean? If mom isn't interested in them at all and they can't get the hang of nursing you're going to have to bottle feed the whole way through.

Your overall advice is excellent except for one thing. If you have to hand feed a kid, you definitely do not need replacer. Plain old cow milk from the store works a lot better than any replacer ever made. It is much safer, too.

 

[Stravager]

Your overall advice is excellent except for one thing. If you have to hand feed a kid, you definitely do not need replacer. Plain old cow milk from the store works a lot better than any replacer ever made. It is much safer, too.

I know you can make homemade milk replacer with whole cows milk from the store in a pinch, but I've only ever seen recipes that involve adding goats milk, yogurt, and condensed milk, not just milk alone to get the fat and protein content needed for goats. Can you elaborate on the "safer" aspect of straight cows milk?

 

[cassie]

I know you can make homemade milk replacer with whole cows milk from the store in a pinch, but I've only ever seen recipes that involve adding goats milk, yogurt, and condensed milk, not just milk alone to get the fat and protein content needed for goats. Can you elaborate on the "safer" aspect of straight cows milk?

What evidence do you need? I raised literally hundreds of baby goats on cow milk, and I know other breeders that did the same. When I had my goat dairy, I also owned cows. I raised the kids on cow milk and sold the goat milk. Baby goats thrive on cow milk and baby calves do very well on goat milk. The fat content of cow milk and goat milk is not that different. Store milk is about 3.5% butterfat. When I was shipping milk my goat milk was about the same. The formula you are referring to was concocted by a Boer breeder. Boer goats and mini goats on an average produce milk higher in butterfat than either store milk or the average dairy goat.

I have used replacer on occasion, and I do not recommend it. Some kids do fine on it and others simply cannot tolerate it. They get the scours or worse, blow up and die without warning. I have had kids bloat even on the expensive replacers formulated for kids. For the record, to make the formula, take a jug of whole milk and pour off about a quart. Add to the jug a can of evaporated milk and a cup of buttermilk. Fill the jug back up with some of the milk you poured off and shake it up. That's it. Hope this helps.

 

[Stravager]

What evidence do you need? I raised literally hundreds of baby goats on cow milk, and I know other breeders that did the same. When I had my goat dairy, I also owned cows. I raised the kids on cow milk and sold the goat milk. Baby goats thrive on cow milk and baby calves do very well on goat milk. The fat content of cow milk and goat milk is not that different. Store milk is about 3.5% butterfat. When I was shipping milk my goat milk was about the same. The formula you are referring to was concocted by a Boer breeder. Boer goats and mini goats on an average produce milk higher in butterfat than either store milk or the average dairy goat.

I have used replacer on occasion, and I do not recommend it. Some kids do fine on it and others simply cannot tolerate it. They get the scours or worse, blow up and die without warning. I have had kids bloat even on the expensive replacers formulated for kids. For the record, to make the formula, take a jug of whole milk and pour off about a quart. Add to the jug a can of evaporated milk and a cup of buttermilk. Fill the jug back up with some of the milk you poured off and shake it up. That's it. Hope this helps.

Thank you for the explanation. I can definitely understand fresh milk from a cow, but in my opinion generic pasteurized milk in the store is nowhere near as great. I've also never seen a goat on powder version milk replacer have the problems you're speaking of, but granted I have not raised hundreds of goats as you have and my goat knowledge is fairly small. We're all here to learn, so giving explanations for why things are or aren't good is definitely helpful for us newbies. If you had ended your previous post in "it is much safer too because goats bloat less on it" that would have gone a long ways to actually educating. We all want to make sure we're doing the best we can for our animals, after all, so any extra tidbits of experience are good to have.

 

[cassie]

Thank you for the explanation. I can definitely understand fresh milk from a cow, but in my opinion generic pasteurized milk in the store is nowhere near as great. I've also never seen a goat on powder version milk replacer have the problems you're speaking of, but granted I have not raised hundreds of goats as you have and my goat knowledge is fairly small. We're all here to learn, so giving explanations for why things are or aren't good is definitely helpful for us newbies. If you had ended your previous post in "it is much safer too because goats bloat less on it" that would have gone a long ways to actually educating. We all want to make sure we're doing the best we can for our animals, after all, so any extra tidbits of experience are good to have.

There is nothing wrong with pasteurized milk. In fact, for disease control it is sometimes better to feed it than raw milk. I fed my kids pasteurized goat milk and heat-treated colostrum to prevent the transmission of CAE when I did not have enough milk from my cows to feed them. Some years ago, there was an outbreak of mycoplasma in my area of California. In order to bring it under control, the dairymen who fed milk rather than replacer started pasteurizing the milk fed to calves. A large goat dairy near me was working to eradicate CL. In spite of their best efforts, they were not completely successful in getting rid of it until they started pasteurizing their kid milk.

The reason you haven't seen problems with feeding replacer is that the fewer animals you have the fewer problems you are going to see simply because of statistics. As I said, some kids do well on replacer while other kids just can't tolerate the stuff. FYI, if you insist on feeding replacer, keep a supply of GasX in the barn. In fact, you should keep GasX on hand anyway. There is nothing better for treating goats for bloat. It is fast, effective, and safe. Anyway, if a kid is going to bloat from replacer, it will usually do so shortly after being fed. For that reason, when I was feeding replacer, I would feed the kids first and then do the rest of the barn chores afterwards. That way I would still be in the barn if a kid blew up. I would just shove a GasX tablet down its throat and it would be fine in about 15 minutes or so.

 

[Stravager]

In fact, you should keep GasX on hand anyway. There is nothing better for treating goats for bloat. It is fast, effective, and safe. Anyway, if a kid is going to bloat from replacer, it will usually do so shortly after being fed. For that reason, when I was feeding replacer, I would feed the kids first and then do the rest of the barn chores afterwards. That way I would still be in the barn if a kid blew up. I would just shove a GasX tablet down its throat and it would be fine in about 15 minutes or so.

There's next to no goat meds in Canada, so that is really cool to know. Is there a specific GasX that you use (max strength vs extra strength for example)? And specifically the tablet version?

 

[cassie]

I have no idea what variety of GasX I used. I just grabbed a package of tablets off the grocery store shelf. I am not sure the liquid form was even available when I was using it. Please understand that it has been quite a few years since I last had goats or any livestock.

 

[goats-n-oats]

Hi all, there is plenty of milk from this kid's dam and another goat. She was doing really well for a couple of days, drinking 3-4 bottles a day, then yesterday stopped taking the bottle, and last night we had a cold spell, and today she is floppy and lethargic again. I've given her 1.5cc penicillin subq, probiotics, selenium+E gel orally, and 1cc vitamins ADE orally. Today she's taken a few sips of milk here and there but is now shivering and floppy, even though she's bundled up. I noticed when giving her the penicillin injection it was hard to tent her skin, like she's really dehydrated. She is much larger than her sister, who is active and nursing.
Also, her front hooves we're bent or curled under her first day or two, then resolved apparently with vitamin e, and today one hoof is curled under again.

Her dam won't let her nurse. Is it possible to save her?