[non-emergency] - Fatty Liver Syndrome

[breyns]

Quote:
I'm wondering about this as I feed partly a whole grain diet. Is the fish meal a powder? Is it possible that they are picking out the grains for the most part and leaving the pellets and fish meal? I feed the whole grain portion in limited amounts as I am worried about their endless appetite for these. I also quit giving them bread or rice for the same reasons.

Honestly, I just started feeding them the whole grain feed about a month ago and I was mixing in the pellets just to use them up. Now, I am looking into alternatives because of the corn. And yes, the fish meal is a powder. They do seem to pick out the grains first but there is very little waste left in the feeder so, I think they are eating it.

 

[breyns]

Quote:
I was thinking the same thing. I don't really want to put them on a diet, especially since the smaller ones may need more. I don't want to have to feed these girls separately - and I don't know how I'd manage that anyway. I thought I was doing everything right - the same things you are doing: free range all day and feed inside the coop.

 

[gallusdomesticus]

I used to overfeed treats such as bread to my birds and one of my silver laced wyandottes came down with ascites (water belly) that the vet said was caused by fatty liver disease. I cut out the treats and she was treated with milk thistle extract which got her liver problem under control and with the pint of liquid the vet drained from her abdomen, she's fully recovered. The bird vet told me, as others have related on this thread, that a diet too high in carbohydrates can lead to fatty liver disease.

 

[breyns]

Quote:
That's interesting about the milk thistle extract. I've heard of that used for liver support in people. Do you remember the dosage and duration? Was it something you put in the water? Was your chicken on the fat side? And did she lose weight that you noticed after you cut out the treats?

 

[fiberart57]

Hello. I'm sorry that you lost your little Orp. I have a couple of thoughts.

I have an Orp also, Bunny, but she's not too fat. I've read that they can become fat if they're sedentary but that didn't seem to be your problem. I don't limit my chickens' food, I have an Andalusian that I work hard to keep weight on so I keep food out all the time. The main portion of their food is Flock Raiser and most of the snacks are limited to a cup of scratch before bed distributed between six standards. The scratch is homemade and is composed of oats, wheat, BOSS and now during the cold, a small amount of corn. The ration is about 4:4:1:0.25. Corn is high in fat. Like yours, mine run around the yard most of the day and have to go to their pen for their food. I have a Speckled Sussex that's bigger than Bunny; she's the one I worry about.

I think that fat intake in diet is a major contributor to fatty liver disease, but I'm wondering how much of it is simple particular to that particular bird not being able to process it as well as others. I can feel keel bones in all my girls but they carry a good weight, seem to feel well and they lay well.

It sounds like you're doing the best you can.

Mary

 

[Wifezilla]

Corn is high in fat

One cup of sweet corn only contains 1.8g of fat. It does, however, contain about 29g of carbohydrate. Corn isn't mostly fat it is mostly SUGAR.

I think that fat intake in diet is a major contributor to fatty liver disease,

Not exactly. VEGETABLE fats can be a contributor, but saturated fat DOES NOT. It has to do with the omega 6 fatty acids in vegetable oils. They cause inflammation. Butter and coconut oil WILL NOT. A much bigger factor than the fats is carbohydrates and fructose.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/7006191.stm

"Emerging research shows that excessive dietary fructose, largely from consumption of HFCS, represents “an important, but not well-appreciated dietary change,” which has “…rapidly become an important causative factor in the development of the metabolic syndrome,”9 a conglomeration of risk factors that greatly elevates the risk of cardiovascular disease and diabetes. Other research suggests that high dietary fructose consumption contributes to obesity and insulin resistance,5,7 encourages kidney stone formation,13 promotes gout,14-17 and is contributing to an upsurge in cases of non-alcoholic fatty liver disease.4,18,19 Furthermore, high dietary fructose consumption is associated with increased production of advanced glycation end products (AGEs), which are linked with the complications of diabetes and with the aging process itself.2,5,7"
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/dec2008_Metabolic-Dangers-of-High-Fructose-Corn-Syrup_01.htm

"Earlier studies had established that fructose is more readily converted to fatty acids than glucose and had also linked high-fructose diets to high blood levels of triglycerides (a condition known as hypertriglyceridemia), NAFLD and insulin resistance."
http://esciencenews.com/articles/2009/03/03/missing.link.between.fructose.insulin.resistance.found

"dietary fructose intake, specifically soft drink consumption. NAFLD encompasses a spectrum of diseases associated with an accumulation of fat in the liver – which can lead to scarring and impaired function: cirrhosis, and insulin resistance and thus type 2 diabetes, among other things. The study found that a staggering 80% of subjects with NAFLD were consuming a significantly greater amount of soft drinks than those who were NAFLD free. In fact, the NAFLD group’s carbohydrate intake from soft drinks was five times that of their healthy counterparts."
http://www.supermarketguru.com/index.cfm/go/sg.viewArticle/articleId/761​

 

[breyns]

Not exactly. VEGETABLE fats can be a contributor, but saturated fat DOES NOT. It has to do with the omega 6 fatty acids in vegetable oils. They cause inflammation. Butter and coconut oil WILL NOT. A much bigger factor than the fats is carbohydrates and fructose.

That's what I was thinking. And why I'm considering giving them suet. I agree that animal fat doesn't make people or animals fat - it's funny how we can apply the principles of our own diet to our chickens. I thought you all might like to read the comments of the necropsy report. It's interesting that it mentions specifically NOT to use pelleted feed and that's what they were getting up until I started to switch over a month ago. Here it is:

COMMENTS: Fatty liver hemorrhagic syndrome is normally associated with birds fed high-energy diets
and limited exercise. Some ways you can reduce the energy intake in the flock include the use of mash
only (do not include pelleted feeds). However, do not use too fine a mash diet, since this encourages feed
wastage and causes dustiness. Also, you may consider limit time feeding, such that birds have access to
feed for 6-8 hours each day. Extra care is needed in water management so as to prevent wet litter.

Thank you again for all the great comments.​

 

[chookchick]

Quote:
I'm worried about my speckled sussex too!:

Delilah is just a pig! She lives to eat. She's always been a big girl, and a terrible layer, and her comb has never colored up well. I won't hijack your thread too much, but I worry that she might have too much fat on her.

RE necropsy report:
Not sure how to do multiple quotes--but I hate the term "high-energy" diet! What the heck does that mean!? Protein, carbohydrates and fat can all be converted to energy, some more quickly than others. Fat is much more calorie dense, so you think that would be "high energy", but the term seems to be used in reference to corn a lot, which makes no sense, as corn is not high fat???? I wish they would be a little more technical in this explanation, as it is not much help as it is.