NON GMO feeds

[weeflock]

That's a bit off on the "pro" list.

I'm surrounded by conventional farms & GMO crops. Cultivation techniques are changing as quite a few farmers are looking towards growing techniques more utilized by organic farming. Things change.. techniques change.. with advancements in information and technology.

If you want to go through it on another thread- I most happily will respond.

Anyways.. ATTRA is a good one to check for some info on poultry feeds if you are looking to grow/make your own. (attra.org)

Are you just looking for brands.. or home sourced feed options? I was actually debating about ordering some scratch & peck. Mine hate pellets. They won't eat it.. but they will pulverize it and turn it into a dust bath in the coop. I still have it out and organic... plus they get a pretty big assortment too (frozen wild berries, baked squash, kitchen scraps, fresh greens, butchering scraps, etc.) Wood sorrel is one that grows well on my windowsill. (Caution- has oxalic acid- but my birds still love it.) Oh.. and alfalfa is always there- the fields are set in alfalfa & clover, so we are using it in the coop.

Ok - I think I am getting the hang of this deal - don"t hit "reply" just hit quote -

Yes - I was curious about other brands out there like Scratch and Peck - also wanted to connect with people who are going this route with feeding. I'm really happy with how my hens are looking and behaving, plus I get a really nice egg production, better than my neighbors do.
I was wondering how they would do with the grass pellets - they can be somewhat picky - at least the Marans are -
Growing my own would be awesome if I had more property - they destroy a garden plot fairly fast
They love the Scratch and Peck - I use the no soy layer and the 3 grain Scratch which also doubles as a great goat training treat.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

Chickengeorgeto - I respectfully don't agree with you . .... People are getting sicker and the creatures that are part of the process for food growth are dying.

Weeflock, the life expectance in the USA has increased by leaps and bounds during most of the 20th century. The most notable exception was during the years of the Woodrow Wilson Presidency when from the first year of American involvement in WWl in 1916 until 1918 when helped by the Spanish flue the American male life expectancy plunged by almost 15 years.

As for the deaths of creatures that are part of the food growing process, regardless if you are a Turnip or a Tilapia dying is part and parcel of the food growing process.

Remember, "It is ordained for a cheese once to die, and after that it becomes a quiche."

 

[Dreyadin]

What does the source of the seeds that a crop is raised from have to do with whether it is organic or Genetically Modified? Every food and feed stuff that you buy and eat or that you buy and feed to your chickens has been, or will be sprayed dusted, or treated at one time or the other with some pretty nasty chemicals. That is if you are a grasshopper, cutworm, or aphid. Think about it, if this wasn't true then there would not be any organic food on the shelves at the grocery store. "Organic" does not mean pesticide free but instead means that all (well most of) the pesticides employed to grow "organic" food
are the older more dangerous generation of pesticides. Thank of these pesticides like they were the same old poisons that Rachael Carson was so concerned about. Most of this generation of pesticides was first isolated from other plants that demonstrated resistance to insect pests and then mass produced.

If not the largest, Monsanto is ONE of the largest providers of these so called "organic" pesticides. Monsanto does not want to stop selling pesticides to both camps in the "organic" food fight. They make money from both camps. The next big thing in the GMO seed industry is to improve the yields of GM crops. This is why Monsanto is buying out other seed companies. It is to gain access to their patented crop verities that may have over 100 years of research behind them. This and this alone is why some GM crops have lower yields than their conventional competitors. Monsanto is as big a victim of conventional seed companies as the eat "organic" or die crowd says that Monsanto is a conspiracy to ruin small farmers.

Now this bit of trivia from the halls of the evil seed empire. Not only did Monsanto refuse to renew their patent on RoundUp herbicide about 10 years ago, but they allowed their US patent on RoundUp Ready Soy-Beans to expire. I am sure that all the "organic" activist will sing Monsanto's praises from the highest mountain top. Starting this year all the "organic" soy-bean farmers in America can plant RoundUp ready soybeans and save the seeds from their heritage glyphosate resistant legumes and replant them year after year to their hearts content without paying Monsanto a penny for the privilege or having a GMO paper trail leading back to Monsanto to hide.

Sing their praises? No. Transgenic crops are not allowed in organic. Furthermore the GE traits are dominant. Step around to the other side of the fence for a minute. Certified organic farmers have a slew of restrictions and constant monitoring just to be able to label their products organic. It takes 3 years of land prep ahead of time, land buffers are required, soil testing, feedstock (materials to be composted) must all be kept track of and tested, composting is much more closely regulated, it goes on and on. They can use non-organic seeds if organic is not available.. but still no GMO. There's a lovely long list of prohibited substances- yes, they can use some biological treatments.
Funny you should mention "old poisons".. they are making a comeback in industrial ag. Glyphosate isn't effective as so many weeds have developed resistances, so it is being mixed with other herbicides by farmers (most of which don't exactly hold a chemistry background.) Testing on safety isn't as diligent as you would think- in any part of it (regarding GMO consumption or even the 'cides- many of which have been on the market for decades. As long as certain cancers remain a quirky coincidence to those exposed vs verified carcinogen or immune system inhibitor- they're not liable.)

GM tech isn't 100 years old. It's half that. You're talking about a major powerhouse company on a global scale that is incredibly diversified. Earlier this year DuPont & Monsanto buried the hatchet and have now teamed up with their seed technologies. Together- that's 2/3rds of the total corn & soy seed market. Now have you ever planted corn? Let me give you an idea where the problem comes up- corn is a relative to grass and like grass it is wind pollinated. In bloom, the pollen is released by the millions everyday for about 2 weeks and is able to ride a light breeze up to 2 miles away. Do you know what everyone in a 2 mile radius is growing? There aren't any constraints on conventional farmers to prevent cross contamination- that burden is on organic producers. Then situations arise like in Oregon when an unapproved Monsanto GMO wheat shows up in a farmer's field- over 10 years after it was legally planted.

Civilization came about on the backs of organic farmers. Crop diversity didn't start in a lab- it started with common people growing food for their families. While Golden rice is brandished as a major accomplishment- realize there's thousands of years of selective breeding to get it where it is now. It originated from a weedy plant with only a few kernels and it shattered easily. There are thousands of different varieties of tomatoes, corn, peppers, beans, flowers, etc. of which a vast majority- started in someone's garden. Many times diseases have hit crops- and natural resistances were utilized. That is possible with diversity. When you have dominant genetics that are not naturally found in that species (then slap on it patent laws).. that's obliterating diversity.

If you wish to consume/support GMO- that is your choice. Respect those who opt to support organic. Their support keeps diversity possible (something farmers who wish to not grow GMO are having trouble with as sourcing seed is an issue. Try looking into the plight of organic seed producers.) Yes- the major corporations are dabbling in that as well. Same company that poisoned neighborhoods with PCB. Same one that lied about safety to avoid accountability. Same one that's primary drive is monetary "We can't afford to lose one more dollar of business" and has profits in the billions. Same one that has been caught falsifying data in their studies.. even went as far as claiming dioxin was not carcinogenic. These companies are allowed to police themselves- and have lobbyists galore.

Like I said- if you want to go further into this.. I will happily join the discussion. This thread is Weeflock's and they are looking into non-gmo feeds. (apologies for the tangent/ long response.)

 

[chickengeorgeto]

GM tech isn't 100 years old. It's half that.

If that is true then why all the hoopla about so called "Heritage" crop varieties and heritage chicken breeds. I wish to remind you that these are varieties and breeds that were prevalent when 90% of the population was required to live in squalor and ignorance just to feed the 10% of the population who were privileged to live in cities and towns?

The same people who cry the loudest about GMOs sob the hardest about a so called declining bio diversity even though both private seed companies and nation states in almost every part of the globe have partnered to keep crop varieties of all kinds alive and viable in seed banks. It is not in a seed companies best interest to only have 5 or 6 corn breeds to work with if a tragedy strikes an agriculture sector. But genetic modification is genetic modification whether a rooster or a scientist in a white lab coat gets to do the deed.

How much corn have you planted?

 

[Cindy in PA]

Weeflock, the life expectance in the USA has increased by leaps and bounds during most of the 20th century. The most notable exception was during the years of the Woodrow Wilson Presidency when from the first year of American involvement in WWl in 1916 until 1918 when helped by the Spanish flue the American male life expectancy plunged by almost 15 years.

As for the deaths of creatures that are part of the food growing process, regardless if you are a Turnip or a Tilapia dying is part and parcel of the food growing process.

Remember, "It is ordained for a cheese once to die, and after that it becomes a quiche."

The increase in life expectancy can be attributed to antibiotics & vaccines that were developed in the early & mid 20th century. There hasn't been a long enough time to see what all the toying with out food has done for us all. If you don't like organic & non GMO don't buy it, but don't spread rumors that are not true.

 

[Dreyadin]

Only 2% of the US population are farmers/ranchers.

You're confusing Genetic modification with selection for gene expression (selective breeding.) Example of GM- when they spliced in genetics of jellyfish or sea anemone to create a puppy that glows under UV light. Selection for gene expression.. developed all the different breeds of dogs (another example.. controling what animals are bred together to achieve specific colorations/ body type/ egg color/ etc.) Yes, there is also other forms of GE where mutations are forced by exposure to various things- but that's not the method that is upsetting most people.

Genetic engineering was first done 40 years ago. GE crops started hitting the market in the mid 90's. In a brilliant manuever of market manipulation- they undercut non-gmo seed prices. Farmers pounced. The lower priced seed out sold non-gm, without demand for the non-gm crop seeds the availability dropped. To give you an idea of scale- we're looking at GM crops now accounting for 90% -and in some regions even higher and that happened in less than a decade. To find enough non-gm seed is a challenge- and expensive. With control over the seed market- GM seed prices have increased by 30% in the last few years. If a small percentage of your crop gets cross pollinated by one of their patented strains- they own your whole crop. It's not accidental that their focus began with staple crops.

The industrial and agricultural revolutions paved the way... homesteading acts gave people a place to go, mass production made equipment affordable, fossil fuels provided the energy- still farmers commonly struggle with debt. Homesteading wasn't even all that long ago. (Alaska being the last to end it 30 years ago.)

The "hoopla" in France is called terroir. For some the choice in feed for their animals has just as much to do about the quality & flavor of the meat/eggs. For some it is an ethical choice - they wish to support small scale independent farmers.. some question the safety of gm.. some find it makes financial sense.. reasons vary. The variety of crops and livestock directly influenced the cuisines a culture developed. This matters a lot to some people.

What is going on in agriculture now is unprecedented on so many levels. To be concerned and cautious is pretty rational considering the scale of what is taking place.

 

[Dreyadin]

Sorry, meant to answer you Wee..

They're in WA, so this link might be something you'd be interested in.http://agr.wa.gov/FoodAnimal/Organi...rence_Material/237_Guide_OrgCertification.pdf
It isn't surprising the employee didn't have a simple yes or no answer if you consider the scope of the question. Is it possible for them to track the crop back- yes. When they are purchasing certified organic grains they're keeping track- but- then you'd have to go to each crop farmer and ask them- which they too will have the records of cultivar grown, seed source, as well as having kept track of testing, cultivation practice, etc.

If you're bored.. or curious.. you could try to sprout some of the feed to check germination.

 

[marktoo]

Didn't read through this whole thread so don't shoot me if this was mentioned already. Modesto Milling in Modesto Ca. supplies non gmo feeds, they have a list of who carries their products on their website.

 

[weeflock]

Didn't read through this whole thread so don't shoot me if this was mentioned already. Modesto Milling in Modesto Ca. supplies non gmo feeds, they have a list of who carries their products on their website.

I found them when I was doing a search for the Agway brand mentioned before this drifted Thank you! No one carries this product in the feed stores near me, so I was not aware of it.

There are some really interesting posts on this thread - you won't need to sift through too much ugly to find the good ones

 

[marktoo]

I found them when I was doing a search for the Agway brand mentioned before this drifted Thank you! No one carries this product in the feed stores near me, so I was not aware of it.

There are some really interesting posts on this thread - you won't need to sift through too much ugly to find the good ones

You're welcome...sorry it was of no help. There's always Costco! I have a choice between traveling 30 miles SE to a store that seldom has the products in stock or 50 miles to Modesto to the mill, last time I went to the mill. We should be able to work in picking up feed with other activities so it shouldn't be a problem.

I' ll have to read through the thread at some point.

Thanks!