Norwegian Jaerhon

[free burd]

dear aurissavannahs,
your first paragraph is priceless. through 100+F and molt - that is the first
lay/molt information on any breed i have ever read - i have found this
information nowhere else and from your life experience that is exactly the way i
wanted to hear someone say it - can't thank you enough.
over 200 would be exceptional considering 160 is the most reliable claim i have found.
and they will continue for years from what i now understand eating next to nothing
relatively speaking. how can this chicken be real? {i am going to spoil them}

also; better survivors etc. that is high praise - as a first timer i worried about handling predation.
they are an ancient land race though, so i shouldn't feel stunned by his comparison.
i am getting the sense that when this information gets collated and gets out,
in general, that this bird is going to explode in popularity -
without being promoted like other breeds need to be.
but on a smaller, backyard/barnyard scale for the jaers.
possibly, much like the when the barred rock was introduced and historically changed everything.
males where sent out all over the country and in 2 generations converted flocks to the new standard.
i can see jaer males converting layer flocks all over the country to more efficient layers with greater longevity.

if the us dollar collapses and the economy is shut down get ready to hatch and sell/trade
100's of jaers to people who have to economize to their last penny. jaers could be the hottest
seller in the usa if people knew about them. plus its bizarre immunity to inbreeding problems
could spread it fast. lets hope that it doesn't happen that way though.

your last paragraph too - well written, and exactly what i wanted to know.
it takes my breath away, how many hours i have put into trying to understand this bird
and you cleared up all my questions like a laser. especially to say EE and calif whites,
(which i have considered) but on less feed. and of the 100's and 100's of forum posts
i have read, i ask myself every time 'why don't people say where they got their birds from'
when origin is an important factor and others might like the same strain...no one does this.
so jaers people are the smartest, most considerate chicken people out there...
looks like i will be building my flock around jaers - if not jaers alone.
i still cant believe they're for real though.

deeply grateful for your time,
robert braun [email protected]

 

[free burd]

hello rosemary,
up to this point i understood that hens tucked their heads under their wing to
sleep and frost bite does not harm them - so this hen info is new for me.
i also have around 2 weeks of -20 with a couple of nights of -30 per season
to deal with and you are so right, the moisture/humidity in winter is the only coop
issue that i have not found a solution for yet. i deal with dampness in my old house in winter so i understand.
it's remarkable that you solved it with air circulation in such a cold climate
it doesn't make sense but it worked - i don't know what to say, i can't imagine
the birds discomfort - i think i would have to heat the roosts to save my own conscience.
i am also told that birds handle cold better than heat so - wow, it will be hard for me at first.

here is the amazing thing. i come from 100's of years of farmers, but after my fathers
generation all the livestock stopped and just grain was grown on the farms so i grew up seeing
all the buildings, but empty - now my grandparents chicken coop was remarkable - it was large.
as big as an extra long one car garage.
and made out of rough oak boards which we call 1x6's these days and nailed onto the frame horizontally
looking like snow fence - with a space of about 3 fingers between all the boards.
the same on all 4 sides with a solid slant roof.
it was basically a 'blow-through' building. and in those days michigan winters got to be subzero too.
i never thought i would have a need or reason to have chickens so i did not question this strange
coop design - but we both know what that was all about, right? fresh air and DRY. i have no clue
what breed they kept... but i will always remember the useless looking building on the farmyard
and thinking it would be impossible for chickens to survive in it. this design has come into my mind
off and on over the last months. maybe i will build a coop with a choice of a blow-through and more
sheltered and then they can choose where they want to roost.
(somehow i think i will be the only one in this picture who will be a wimp)

also, your EE, EE/ameraucana second 'best' was my choice as well so thank you
for reassuring me on all points - plus blue and green eggs are easy to sell around here.
i still may try to snag a pea comb off an EE for the jaers - your reference to reducing
comb size is the first i have heard of - if that is just a selection process then i hope it
works out for you in as few generations as possible - it would be a great benefit to the
breed. i would not have known it was possible. kudos to you.

possibly, like you, i am now going back to my ancestors 'archaic' lifestyle just to have
a decent breakfast. i know the VALUE of eggs made of bugs and weeds.
and my 'micro orchard' needs the chickens as much as i do.
i once gave a lot of thought to the value of real eggs and decided that if i could
get them they should probably cost $12 a dz. with currency inflation and the rarity
of them and their REAL nutritional value. that would be a bargain.
my complements to you and your friends/customers
'having special dietary requirements or philosophies.'
did you mean normal dietary requirements and normal thinking? don't get me going...

your last paragraph - hit it out of the park for me.
i have always known what i wanted but haven't seen it in print anywhere.
you have just anchored it in for me - i'm thrilled to know i am not alone.
i expect a long term relationship and the 7 and 10 years possibility was
just what i was trying to understand.

again, priceless
you have really gotten me on track fast.
kindest regards
robert braun [email protected]

 

[1muttsfan]

Heating a coop actually increases the risk of frostbite. The best way to prevent frostbite is good ventilation. If your coop has metal walls, they intensify the cold and increase the chances of frostbite. Lining metal walls with insulation or even thin plywood helps decrease cold damage. The birds are well able to acclimate to cold temps but not if they are in a heated environment.

My coop is elevated with wood siding and bubble-wrap type insulation. The first year I had 2 RIR hens get frostbite on their combs, and condensation on the inside of the coop that would actually drip at times Since then I have left a window on the south side of the coop partially open, and have had no frostbite or water condensation on the inside of the coop. The birds have been robust and active. This is my first year with jaers, so we shall see how they do this winter. It regularly gets into the zero range and below here.

My Isa browns layed well in their second year, however the eggs were grotesquely large and became more thin-walled as time went by. They broke easily and would no longer fit into egg cartons.

 

[free burd]

hello again 1muttsfan,
what surprises me is that sand hill hatchery uses the metal buildings for their flocks...
before learning this from you - even i had an inner sense that this was a problem.
mine will be wood and 1/2 inch wire mesh with an eye out for avoiding cracks
that parasites can live in and the base a foot and a half off the ground and attached to
an unused room on my house with the nests built inside the window of that
unheated room - i have only seen pictures of house-attached livestock buildings in europe.
it's an OLD way of doing things. (i won't be going outside to collect eggs or check on them.)
(i know they are loud when they lay and crow - it's not near my living area)
they will also have a big unheated greenhouse to run around in in winter.
i know this has been done before but now i am wondering how they will handle
the humidity in there during the daytime...this is also going to be attached to the house.
the thing i will have to try to understand is that they need ventilation
but they can not stand drafts from what i have read...
(i originally thought getting chickens would be so simple)

re: the condensation, i am aware that the hens breathing rate is high and they produce
more moisture than one would think. your example is going to make me extra careful now.

when i said heat the roosts, i meant that literally. very often i read posts of people who
turn on an infrared brooder light in their coops on cold nights - which is 250 watts.
that adds up on the electric bill (!) my idea was to put a heat wire under the roost only.
the kind used to de-ice roofs and gutters or the kind used to keep a pipe from freezing.
the pipe ones are available in as little as 6 feed and 35 watts.
i also have the roof type that is only 50 watts - it is the most efficient electric
heat producer i have ever found and weather proof. (and being in ND i have tried them ALL)
the idea here is the same as homes that have floor heating - where peoples feet
are cozy warm but the room air temp is actually much lower than the way conventional
homes are heated - and i have been in those homes and they are REAL comfortable.
so my idea is that this targeted heat will rise around the birds body in a micro-climate
way and relieve discomfort/stress on subzero nights. very economical for the few weeks
of sub-zero nights and possibly keeping the winter lay rate more steady without artificial
lighting. (the coldest nights are jan and feb when daylenth is increasing and they are
beginning to lay again) the whole point of saying this and
to bring this post back on topic, the jaers are SO little. i would not be thinking
along these lines for a barred rock sized bird - just my armature thoughts you know.
i am a little skittish about the jaers comfort in winter and i am preparing ahead to learn
about them from observation so i will probably try this especially now that you jaer people
have been teaching me that i have to have the coop open to circulation on these dead cold nights.

re: ISA's. i thought those where only available in europe...i haven't seen it listed on any
hatchery site. anyway, what a bizarre account! i am beginning to think that the people who
breed for production are just trying to hard. this makes me feel even more lucky that i
understand the jaers more now.

thanks to everyone.
robert braun [email protected]

 

[1muttsfan]

Any electrical wires would have to be shielded or the birds will pick at them, both a shock hazard and fire danger.

I would think a big unused greenhouse would be ideal for a winter pen. Humidity would be much less an issue in a big open space.

 

[Amyable]

Robert, I am enjoying reading your posts on your info journey, and rather glad you are being converted to the Jaers.

I just wanted to put 2 cents in on the frostbite issue. I have 2 coops, one small 4x10 and another larger 12x16. On the small one I leave one small window at least cracked all winter long (we have bitter winters too.) On the large coop there are 2 turbine-type vents, and usually a window cracked as well. My main Jaer roo, with his large comb, only lightly frosted his tips last winter. I've not seen any frostbite on any hen in my multi-breed flock.

Since you have voiced your annoyance at not finding any rate of lay numbers over time, I'm going to start keeping better records of that myself. I had intended to, but good intentions...well you know.

 

[1muttsfan]

Sandhill does keep laying records too, but not exact numbers, and they clearly state that the numbers are from their flock only. If you go to the website there are two very interesting sections, one on number of eggs layed per year, the other on the size of eggs. Since they breed for not just type but production as well, you may not find their data to translate completely to other lines - for example the Delawares that I have from them have been excellent producers and really nice birds, but from other breeders not so much.

 

[free burd]

the heat cables would be attached to the bottom of the 2x3 roosts and enclosed
in sheet metal on the wood side and covering the cable in an 'envelope' but i will
make sure and hide the rest of the connecting wires, thank you.
i may also try putting the cable inside of some old round gutter downspout
that i have and covering the metal with burlap or old socks which would
be easy to replace for cleaning. i'll try a few things and then let the jaer
decide what they want and go from there. i may flip out if they choose
an unheated roost though (haha, i am such a wimp) but if they like it - well i realized
the rising heat would also keep them dry like a towel dryer in a bathroom
which would relieve all of my anxiety.

on your second point - wow, a big light went off in my head.
i hadn't considered that they might just decide to sleep in the greenhouse
on winter nights. i intended that for their winter run and then back in the
attached coop at night - hummmm, that could alter the way i build the coop.
and i would have to set up nests in the greenhouse for them then and the
coop could just be built for summer use. i'm sure they will let me know
what they want - i'll just watch them carefully at first then rebuild to suit.
_______________________________________________________

i know about sand hills statistics - i nearly have them memorized
and funny you should say it - i thought their delaware stats where
exceptional too. it just shows what a good strain is all about.
also in their email response they let me know that they where
selecting the 'flame' for larger eggs each generation since that
line started out laying med. eggs instead of large - i asked them
specifically if they where doing this and the answer is yes.
although in their chintzy description they said the 'flame' was
much hardier than the original strain and i being in 'americas
siberia', ND, asked if they could be more specific on what
they observed to that effect and in return i got a couple of lines
of indiscernible gibberish - so if you inquire to them by email
about anything put it in the form of a yes or no question or
suffer the consequences. they are doing remarkable work -
who can deny it - but i wish they would learn to hire staff
to relieve them of the mundane pressures so that they can think straight
and communicate clearly - and write more comprehensive breed descriptions
- preferably using a template like henderson's
my sense is that they work to improve all of their lines qualities
and start out with the best lines that they can find.
a noble endeavor. yet i still complain.

robert

 

[free burd]

dear miss greenleaf,

first of all, the last time i saw the photos that you posted of jaers
a voice in my head said 'why are those photos so excellent'
learning about chickens is at times so all consuming and confusing
that every time i check this thread and read one of your posts i forget
that you are a professional photographer - it shows! your jaer pictures
are the best on the planet - you must have high quality equipment too.
i am not sure why a picture matters so much, but since they do,
you put the best face on jaers that there is. so thank you for that.

2 times i searched my atlas for greenleaf and it is not listed.
i thought i could be 300 miles straight west of you and could
drive to your house to buy a rooster if need be. hopes dashed so far.
triple A does not know where you are.

i was converted to jaers the second i became aware of them but then
the norway govt. preservation agency that keeps a flock to distribute
to people in their native land listed 160 per year - which should be an 'official'
number. and then i thought 'i have to get to the bottom of this before i make a
costly mistake' i don't see the living conditions in the usa to be any more
suitable for them than norway - jaer is a coastal/southern area and i once
translated the low temps in that region to compare it to here - it's quite mild!
but as i've said, the thoughtful people here have anchored me into this remarkable
bird and i am excited by the possibility of a self-sustaining breed that i can
live with - really, right now i think that this bird is overlooked or under-appreciated
and should steadily grow as a core of peoples layer flocks. promoted or unpromoted,
but honest accounts of peoples first hand experience with them should be more
available. so far as i am aware they are without a disparaging remark, much
like the easter eggers. (i know a local man who has EE as the core of his
flock - i can sense the unspoken satisfaction in him when we talk of his experience,
he has no need or want for anything better)
...so the jaer really matters in the chicken world just as much except for blue eggs
with less feed cost and labor.
(how does a pea combed blue egg laying jaer sound? i might try to
develop a side line of this great bird to see if it's feasible)

on and off during my education i considered the hamburg as a forager/layer
but from reading decided they where to feral (roosting in trees, escaping
any fence, foraging a quarter of a mile from home on the neighbors land
and getting easily killed by predators) then i went to a show and every time i walked
past the nutty hamburgs they went to the back of the cage like a magnet
and paced like they where digging a mine in the plywood floor - desperate and panicked.
and these where visibly high quality show birds 'conditioned' to be handled
by judges for show. how could anyone face that every day? i cant imagine how they
would be contained - well the breed can be a 100% forager in spring summer and fall
and eat like a mouse, so it cropped up in my mind from time to time -
especially as a possible cross. i even read l. frank baums old hamburg book from the 1800's.
but, once again i am beside myself that a breed like jaers exists and may actually make
a contribution to the environment instead of being a liability with a good chance that
they are nice to be around.

at shows the one i connected with was the bantam salmon faverolles but
nowhere can i find reliable information on how well a faverolls forages
and show stock is likely worthless for this.
so since i have to make the most of my environment the little jaers win all.
and as long as they aren't panic stricken they can do what ever they want.
under my feet or ignore me completely - they'll know they're appreciated.

by the way, your information about turbine vents - which i would not have
visualized for myself on a chicken coop - i think has just solved my concern
about drafts. the coop could have all sorts of vents if they are not open to
gusts of wind (ND is windy) i'm not sure i ever would have thought of it. thanks.

as for annoyance - one never knows how ones writing appears because
it sounds different inside our heads. but i would call it confusing (because i
don't yet understand the historical origin of this absence of information)
and leaded jaw dropping disbelief that no one expects to know what they
are getting - or committing to if they plan to not cull. or massively waisting
their time with if they are planning to cull. i guess, one day i'll figure it out.
i just made it a little shouty because, 'hey, whats up with this?'
'IS EVERYONE LOOSING MONEY IN POULTRY?'
farm livestock are meant to support US not the other way around.
how was the whole population of america converted to this way of thinking?
mind you, i understand that showing chickens is a different thing all together.
i've been to impressive shows and i totally get it.
but for people who have livestock for practical necessities - where did this line
of thinking get shifted? i know it's a pet/hobbyist/lawn ornament issue for some
and that's cool but maybe people have forgotten that this craft can be practical
and a contribution to their families prosperity.
--- jaers - spread the word.
and have fun with your count, i hope the jaers give you a feeling of security.
let them know you appreciate them.

finally, for reference, annoyance: is people who eat crisco and eggs made out of GMO
and industrial waist products who wonder why i wont visit them in the hospital.
or not so old people who stand around and talk about their diseases like
that is socially acceptable. (in a distopia it is)
i haven't been to a doctor in 30 years - but that cant be real...
visibly diseased, smug, proud people who expect you to be just like them -
that's annoying. ( avoid being a tourist in the dakotas )

i think i am going to stop posting for a while so that the genetic people will
come back and pick apart that birds genes. cause my posts shooo ain't getin
any smaller.

robert braun [email protected]

 

[1muttsfan]

Sandhill doesn't hire any help. They do all the work in their gardens and coops themselves, on top of their regular jobs, with just seasonal help.