not all birds are created equal

[Judy]

This thread was edited. Please be sure to voice your opinion in a respectful manner.

 

[wildpeas]

This is a great topic, but boy is it in the wrong place.

It seems to me that I was criticized a few months ago for doing just what is now advocated here. I critiqued some Sebastopols that were poor representatives of the breed which had no place in a breeding program, would have been laughed out of a show hall and did not measure up to the Standard. I meant no hard feeling to their loving owners, but they were what they were. Which is it? Are only quality birds supposed to be bred from, or does anything go just because someone has an emotional attachment to it? You can't have it both ways.

edited by staff

I think the real question is "What are you breeding for?" If you have a nice small flock of backyard birds with lovely temperaments and you want to breed them to keep your own flock going then by all means, do it. If you are breeding for show quality birds to show and improve the breed for public sale, then be picky, cull out the ones that are imperfect, make the brutal decisions.

I do not believe every bird needs to be show quality, but they all need to be the best for their purpose. I'm not really explaining myself very well, if a person is intending to breed birds to sell then they have a responsibility to breed the best they can. If a person is breeding for personal use and not for sale then that's their business.

 

[Year of the Rooster]

I am so glad you decided to start this thread.

It's improper breeding that is going to keep breeds from advancing. Also, another thing that not everyone may agree with: if you want a particular breed for egg laying or meat or both, then obtain that breed, and breed that to the Standard. If you are breeding properly towards the Standard, then the bird should be what you are wanting. Don't get an egg laying breed and expect to get a good meat bird out of the culls, nor try to breed those characteristics into the breed.

Irresponsible breeding is also why Thoroughbreds are required to be mated by live coverage if the horse is going to be registered. It helps keep track of lineage and genetics to keep the gene pool diverse.

 

[Oregon Blues]

I'm not sure whether this is getting off-topic or not.

I see a lot of people who will fall in love with the looks of an animal or bird and want to live with that look on their own property. But they buy a cheap animal or bird from a cheap source and don't get what they wanted. But somehow, they seem to think that all they have to do is to breed those not-quite-right creatures together and somehow, they will end up with the look they fell in love with.

What I am getting around to is "you can't get there from here".

If you want gorgeous fluffy Sebastopol geese, you must start with well bred birds. You can't get there with birds from a hatchery or poor quality birds, or mixed breed birds. When you breed poor quality to poor quality, all you can get is a lot more poor quality.

The same goes for lovely Pomeranian geese, or Pomeranian dogs, for that matter. In order to get that lovely look and that correct temperament, you must start with well bred birds, or dogs, or horses, or show goldfish.

I suspect that what the OP was getting to is that it is not only unfair, it is dishonest, to breed poor quality birds and pass them off as quality purebreds. Not a nice thing to do, at all.

 

[Oregon Blues]

I've got something else to add. Top Quality birds are dirt cheap compared to other types of purebred animals. If you want to breed, expense is not a valid excuse to start with junk. You can buy top of the line birds for $25 for a chicken up to several hundred for a goose. Compare that to $5,000 for a breeding quality dog or multiple millions for a race horse.

Birds reproduce fast. Start with one pair of quality birds and you can have an entire flock of quality birds by the end of the year, Start with a pair of cheap birds and you can have an entire flock of substandard birds by the end of the year. Where is the great savings in that?

 

[CelticOaksFarm]

TOP QUALITY PARENTS DONT GUARANTEE TOP QUALITY OFF SPRING.

Be honest about judging abird you bought as a gosling, and just oohed and aaahed over.

It might be a perfect pet who is pretty, but not perfectly good for breeding.

If you want to breed you invest in breeding stock and the price that comes with it.

If you want pretty pets you buy newly hatched and take the gamble it may not grow into a breedable bird.

​

 

[learycow]

TOP QUALITY PARENTS DONT GUARANTEE TOP QUALITY OFF SPRING.​

Be honest about judging abird you bought as a gosling, and just oohed and aaahed over.​

It might be a perfect pet who is pretty, but [COLOR=FF0000]not[/COLOR] perfectly good for breeding.​

If you want to breed you [COLOR=006400]invest[/COLOR] in breeding stock and the [COLOR=006400]price[/COLOR] that comes with it. ​

If you want pretty pets you buy newly hatched and take the gamble it may not grow into a breedable bird.​

Very well said. I couldn't agree more!

 

[ChristineR]

I think the real question is "What are you breeding for?" If you have a nice small flock of backyard birds with lovely temperaments and you want to breed them to keep your own flock going then by all means, do it. If you are breeding for show quality birds to show and improve the breed for public sale, then be picky, cull out the ones that are imperfect, make the brutal decisions.

I do not believe every bird needs to be show quality, but they all need to be the best for their purpose.

Yes, true. Some people aren't breeding for appearance, but for meat qualities or egg laying abilities. I don't see anything wrong with that. After all, ducks, geese, and chickens don't have the same place in our culture as, say, dogs, cats and horses. Many people consider their birds livestock. As long as they aren't trying to pass them off as something they are not to unsuspecting buyers, I don't see anything wrong with them breeding their top producing birds, even if they don't meet the SOP for their breed. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who laugh at people who breed birds for no other reason than that they are "pretty."

Ideally, I think birds would be bred with an eye toward their appearance and their value as a meat or egg laying specimen.

I suspect that what the OP was getting to is that it is not only unfair, it is dishonest, to breed poor quality birds and pass them off as quality purebreds. Not a nice thing to do, at all.

Yes, I think this is a great statement.

 

[CelticOaksFarm]

if time is taken to read the SOP for the meat breeds you will read where body structure is written about in great detail. Breeding for standard doesnt mean you arent preserving the function of the animal.

 

[CelticOaksFarm]

Here is an example of a good Khaki drake and one who is a cull and spending his time in the meat pen.





Cull drake




and one of our best ducks just cause she likes to pose