Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by Haunted55, Feb 3, 2013.

  1. seminolewind

    seminolewind Flock Mistress Premium Member

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    If someone has Marek's exposed birds, the best thing to do is have some common meds. Like Corrid, or Sulfadimethoxine, Tylan, Penicillin, etc. Or if vaccinating for Marek's , vaccinate for Coccidiosis. I've lost birds from opportunistic bugs. I also lost 3 to Necrotic Enteritis , no symptoms the day before. You're right, their immune system is shot to heck even being vaccinated.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2013
  2. seminolewind

    seminolewind Flock Mistress Premium Member

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  3. BigECarter

    BigECarter Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Will do. A week ago I found the roo in question laying on his side in the dirt. Yikes! As I came closer, he jumped to his feet and shook a bucket's worth of sand out of his feathers.

    I am still learning "normal", LOL.
     
  4. SpeckledHills

    SpeckledHills Chillin' With My Peeps

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    BigECarter - Do you think remaining diarrhea in your flock could be caused by something else?

    I don't know all that has been involved, but I think one of my birds that has periodically had long-lasting diarrhea problems has been infected with E. coli & suffered from Ulcerative Enteritis. At different times, different meds have helped. I gave Penicillin & Sulfadimethoxine in close timing to each other & one or both of those REALLY made a difference. Neomycin helped later when my roo kept having a lot of yellow urates.

    I hope you can solve your birds' problems.
     
  5. Haunted55

    Haunted55 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    As the others have said and you have already figured out, the Corid isn't going to work.. I treated mine last year with Sulmet before I knew about Di-Methox. I recommend the Di-Methox if you can find it and try one last time with that. It should kill any Cocci if there are any left and will also help if there is an underlying infection going on. Following this treatment I would give them a probiotic. I personally use a human one called FloraGen 3 as it has Lactobacillus acidophilus, over 7.5 billion, Bifidobacterium lactis, over 6 billion and Bifidobacterium longum over 1.5 billion. This is per each capsule. I open a capsule and sprinkle it over their feed, once, maybe twice and that's it. Since there is no worry of an overdose with probiotics, using this isn't a worry. I use it on my own and have had fantastic results or wouldn't recommend it. I know, sounds like a commercial, sorry.

    My biggest problem with my birds when the Marek's hit me last year was the coccidiosis and a very resistant form of it as well. I also lost lots and lots to the Marek's paralysis, but the wasting from the disease and the resistant cocci in already compromised birds was a disaster. I lost around 100 birds last year...I hear you.

    For the other problems that go along with this...like the others have said, have your med kit ready at all times. I have Duramycin-10, Tylan 50 and 200, Di-Methox and Sulmet, in case the Di-Methox doesn't work. I also have poultry vitamins at all times. I Use the Durvet Poultry and Electrolytes. The salts are a little bit more than the Sav-A-Chick but if you have a sickened bird losing water through diarrhea, the extra can be the saving of them because it helps the body retain more fluids. With a respiratory infection, I do not use this. I switch to Sav-A-Chick with electrolites. You do not want the added water retention with one of them. You should also have activated charcoal just as a matter of course. It won't do a thing for the Marek's, but it will save them if they live and get into something they shouldn't later.

    I am writting this on the fly, right now...if this has already been said, I'm sorry for repeating. I just quick skimmed the answers. Now I will mention this as I have no idea what your future plans are....if you are going to replace the birds lost this year, I would suggest you get cleaning now before they arrive. If you are getting them from a hatchery, make sure the hatchery uses the 3 Marek's vaccines. If you plan on getting them from breeders, I would highly recommend you buy hatching eggs instead. I would lay in a supply of Oxine as well and wash/rinse any eggs before you bring them home. hatch them and vaccinate all the chicks and the remaining birds you have by the time these new ones have hatched. I will find a link later for you to read, but there is strong evidence to show that revaccination supplies a lot better chance for your birds to live a long life. To be honest, it's a crap shoot no matter what. I just believe that giving my birds, or anyones, for that matter, a fighting chance. When the first vaccine is given between 1-3 days of age, wait 4-6 weeks and then do it again. Keep them totally away from any surviving birds for 6-8 weeks. Biosecurity is going to be your friend from now on.

    One last thing...if your birds have Marek's, then you have to realize you are now a carrier of it as well. I tell people to think as if they have the disease and act accordingly. You can spread this by wearing your chore clothing out in public, by wearing shoes that have been where your birds have walked in your yard, and so on. Serious stuff and you need to be aware you can cause the deaths of other's flock of birds. Also, your birds are now sick for the rest of their lives. The are weakened and can and will catch anything you might bring home from a Fair, bird show, grain store, even a grocery store if someone else wears their chicken clothes into the store. As I said, serious stuff.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2643530/

    Found it. I'm very sorry this has hit you and so hard as well. I have a mutated form of it here and it's not a lot of fun, but I do have survivors and am breeding for immunity with my survivors. It can be done and your birds that survive will give you all of the pleasures of a 'normal' flock, whatever that is and eggs and all of the rest. They will need more care and I, myself, treat with an antibiotic if I even suspect a respiratory disease. I know you've heard that you shouldn't, but you no longer have a normal flock of birds. Life after marek's is just different and you can do this.
     
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  6. casportpony

    casportpony Team Tube Feeding Captain & Poop Inspector General Premium Member Project Manager

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    As for medical kits, I believe one should have an antibiotic like Clavamox or Baytril as well as the others mentioned. Both are very effective in treating e.Coli and respiratory infections and both can be given orally to ensure proper, prompt dosing.

    Another thing I believe should be in the kit is a 35ml catheter tip syringe and 18 french catheter feeding tube. To quote my vet "it's not usually the disease that kills them, it's dehydration and starvation". A sick bird needs fluids at the rate of 30ml/kg (30ml per 2.2 pounds) every 6-8 hours.


    -Kathy
     
  7. BigECarter

    BigECarter Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Thanks all! A lot to take in and absorb. I do have chicks ordered for October 15th from MPC. (We have a roo with 3 hens, so need to fix the ratio.). The breeder has also offered chicks at no cost to replace the losses, but I don't know if he will come through or if I will accept if he does (straight run, same vaccination as my problem flock.)

    I was already planning on isolating and revaccinating. I knew about the need to completely isolate the flock, but the reminder about clothes is a good reinforcement.

    We tried tubing the second pullet we lost. She still went down fast. I'm not sure if we will tube the next one or just cull. Probably depends on how attached we are to the afflicted bird. I'm a bit confused as to how tubing helps with this disease - is it that it helps if it's a secondary issue? We still aren't out of the woods on the primary infection. :(
     
  8. casportpony

    casportpony Team Tube Feeding Captain & Poop Inspector General Premium Member Project Manager

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    Tubing just keeps the bird from starving to death and gives it a chance to *possibly* bounce back from Marek's or whatever is going on, but it's not a cure.
    -Kathy
     
  9. hogster160

    hogster160 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Well 5 have hatched so far. We have decided to leave them with mom. My dh reminded me that we put the compost from the neighbor all over our yard. And there isn't really any place that we could keep them that the other chickens haven't been. And it airborne, so they will stay with mom, and we shall see how it goes. Still 4 more to hatch. There were 3 with holes in the shell this morning, and I didn't want to move the others to check them, but I could hear them chirping. I will check in tomorrow and let you know how things go.

    But in the meantime, pics for your viewing pleasure.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  10. schnebbles

    schnebbles Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Deb (hogster) - but you still don't know if you actually have mareks? Hopefully not! Did you have to cull the one you were talking about before?
     

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