Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[hogster160]

No we have not culled her. Every time we talk about it, she does better.

We finished taking the old shed down today. Took us long enough. I found 4 bottles of pesticide in there and all the bottles had fluid in them. She first stopped walking when we opened up the shed, next morning she was paralyzed. So we are wondering if she got into something in the shed.

Hogster, Marek's doesn't just come on over night.....I would say that this is something she was exposed to somehow. Did you give activated charcoal?

No but I can get some. I don't know why I didn't think about getting her some, will run out tomorrow.

 

[Haunted55]

they are all on nutrena all flock as I keep all different ages, Roos and hens, plus ducks. They free range so he could've gotten in to something I suppose. I store my feed in the basement which is very cool and dry but maybe I need to recheck all the feeders.

Make sure there have been no recalls on your brand of feed as well. You need to check for mushrooms this time of year too. We all think our birds 'know' what is good for them and for the most part they do all right. Until they don't...this is why you need to have the activated charcoal in your med kit and if you see one of your birds acting odd, evaluate and give 2 capsules of the charcoal with a syringe. Mix the charcoal powder into 1 tbls of water and just get it into them. Have plain water available afterwards and don't push feed. That's it. More is not better in this case, the charcoal will take care of the poison.

See if you can find the poison your bird got into. If it turns out to be a caustic, you can try to give milk or yogurt before the charcoal, but it will reduce the charcoal's affectiveness to a small degree. You can also call the poison control center for help. Yes, they have a Vet available and will advise what steps to take.

Where would I get activated charcoal??

Pharmacy, tell them you want something for poison removal.

 

[hogster160]

Make sure there have been no recalls on your brand of feed as well. You need to check for mushrooms this time of year too. We all think our birds 'know' what is good for them and for the most part they do all right. Until they don't...this is why you need to have the activated charcoal in your med kit and if you see one of your birds acting odd, evaluate and give 2 capsules of the charcoal with a syringe. Mix the charcoal powder into 1 tbls of water and just get it into them. Have plain water available afterwards and don't push feed. That's it. More is not better in this case, the charcoal will take care of the poison.

See if you can find the poison your bird got into. If it turns out to be a caustic, you can try to give milk or yogurt before the charcoal, but it will reduce the charcoal's affectiveness to a small degree. You can also call the poison control center for help. Yes, they have a Vet available and will advise what steps to take.


Pharmacy, tell them you want something for poison removal.

I never thought about the mushrooms. We have them all over by the compost and along the one fence line under the trees. Guess I'm going mushroom hunting today as well. In fact they also grow in my garden. I plant my potatoes on top of the soil, then just cover with straw unitl a good 2' + high. Lots of mushrooms there too. As I don't eat them, I really have no clue what kind they are. And I really didn't know mushrooms were poisonous to chickens. Time to also rehash that list I saw on this site.

ETA: my chickens are also on Nutrena all flock, now since I got the turkeys. They were on Nutrena layer when she stopped walking. I will check for recalls too.

Also thanks for taking out the time in your day to help, it is so appreciated!

 

[Haunted55]

Hi Haunted,
She gets organic layers mash (made up with hot water in the morning and evening, it's been cold here) she also has it available to her all day, a small amount of scratch (handful or so between the two of them) sometimes a scrambled egg, greens and grated veggies and she free ranges all day in the garden) she woke up Sunday morning and was lurching around like a drunken sailor. She had a vitamin d shot at the vet on Monday and has gone downhill from there. I've been posting about her on the 'rickets' post. I only have one other, and she's in rude good health although a little put out that she's not getting anywhere near the same attention. Also, I just wanted to say thanks for replying. Sounds like you're going through hell and I feel for you.

Can you get some Super B Complex vitamins? Human kind....1 pill, crushed and added to 1 gallon of water daily. Is the rickets a firm diagnosis or a guess from symptoms? I'm not a Vet, but this sounds to me as if the poor thing got an overdose of the D.
http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminD-HealthProfessional/

My advice is either call the Vet back and explain what is going on and have them give you some cortisol drugs to help clear it from the systom or you can wait it out. Either way it is going to take time for this to clear the body. No fortified treats or extra calcium in her diet. No layer mash, no oyster shell. No dark green vegetables either. You can see if she will eat small pieces of apple and please get a small bag of regular chicken feed, not one for layers, seriously, layer feed is making it worse if I am correct.

Another thing coming to mind....the Super B Complex has vitamin C in it as well as the Bs. Usually, this is a great way to treat signs of neurological issues such as stumbling gait, etc.. In this case, just get a B Complex and add to their water. Not as many Bs in it, but no C which could cause problems with too much D.

 

[Haunted55]

it still occurs to me that maybe my Penny got a bit of weed killer on the poison ivy.

It's always possible Schnebbles. Anytime we use something like that in our yards or we know that a neighbor has done so, we need to keep our birds locked up and away from the chance of ingestion for the amount of time specified on the packaging. Also, we need to be prepared for anything with the charcoal.

 

[Haunted55]

I never thought about the mushrooms. We have them all over by the compost and along the one fence line under the trees. Guess I'm going mushroom hunting today as well. In fact they also grow in my garden. I plant my potatoes on top of the soil, then just cover with straw unitl a good 2' + high. Lots of mushrooms there too. As I don't eat them, I really have no clue what kind they are. And I really didn't know mushrooms were poisonous to chickens. Time to also rehash that list I saw on this site.

ETA: my chickens are also on Nutrena all flock, now since I got the turkeys. They were on Nutrena layer when she stopped walking. I will check for recalls too.

Also thanks for taking out the time in your day to help, it is so appreciated!

Ain't no thing. Right now my life has taken a drastic change and I am picking up pieces and trying to do the work of two. I still try to get on and help the best I can although it is taking me longer to do that now. Bear with me and I'll do the best I can. In the meantime, here is a link to a thread I started with some good info about the alternatives to Marek's and what can be done to fix the symptoms and underlying problems.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/793176/so-you-think-you-have-mareks#post_11427039
Just remember...with vitamins, more isn't always better, they can be just as deadly as the disease or sickness you are trying to fight. Do not double up on multi vitamins, they have fat soluble vitamins in them and can cause big problems in the end.

There have been a few people here on BYC who have been using Nutrena and have been seeing problems. If you can, try switching to a different brand of feed. I am using Blue Seal for my own and so far am having excellent luck with their products. This is one of the first things I will do if I start seeing issues with my birds, change feed brands and see if it makes a difference. You should notice in a few days if it is the feed. You don't even have to change out everyone's, just set a test group and buy one bag. Like I said, if it's the feed you'll see results in 2-4 days.

 

[julie0477]

Yes - I want to thank you too. I picked up a probiotic electrolyte vitamin mix for his water today. There are no respiratory issues as of yet so I think I'll hold off on antibiotic for now. Hopefully we will see some improvement. As of now he is no worse but no better either. Its been a couple of days now so I am thinking too late for charcoal even if it is poisoning? Thank you!

 

[Haunted55]

Yes - I want to thank you too. I picked up a probiotic electrolyte vitamin mix for his water today. There are no respiratory issues as of yet so I think I'll hold off on antibiotic for now. Hopefully we will see some improvement. As of now he is no worse but no better either. Its been a couple of days now so I am thinking too late for charcoal even if it is poisoning? Thank you!

Actually it isn't. Think of how the bowels work. Lots of blood vessals that carry away the nutrients and water as well as dump out the poisons the body normally makes. You give charcoal now, it will help. Not as much as it would have with first contact, but it will still pull some out. Another thing you can do is get some turmeric and sprinkle it onto his feed. For this I get it in a capsule in the vitamin section at WalMart, but if you have the spice on your shelf, use it. Turmeric acts as a cleanser of the blood, both red and white, the liver, ect.. It's another thing I have in my med kit. I also use it for myself if I am sick with a miserable cold or flu. 1/2 tsp. once a day. If he doesn't eat it all the first day, don't add more until the feed is gone. Turmeric is high in vitamin A and that is a fat soluble.

 

[genilou]

Can you get some Super B Complex vitamins?  Human kind....1 pill, crushed and added to 1 gallon of water daily.  Is the rickets a firm diagnosis or a guess from symptoms?  I'm not a Vet, but this sounds to me as if the poor thing got an overdose of the D.
http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminD-HealthProfessional/

My advice is either call the Vet back and explain what is going on and have them give you some cortisol drugs to help clear it from the systom or you can wait it out.  Either way it is going to take time for this to clear the body.  No fortified treats or extra calcium in her diet.  No layer mash, no oyster shell. No dark green vegetables either.  You can see if she will eat small pieces of apple and please get a small bag of regular chicken feed, not one for layers, seriously, layer feed is making it worse if I am correct.

Another thing coming to mind....the Super B Complex has vitamin C in it as well as the Bs.  Usually, this is a great way to treat signs of neurological issues such as stumbling gait, etc..  In this case, just get a B Complex and add to their water.  Not as many Bs in it, but no C which could cause problems with too much D.

Hi again.
We called the vet back a couple of times this week, when she first went downhill & then again yesterday. He gave her a multiple vitamin shot, apparently quite a high dose, but thought the staggers were due to her inability to absorb enough calcium, so the vitamin D in it would work. The last egg age laid had a thin shell which would fit with that wouldn't it? Whenw we spoke to him yesterday & said she was largely the same after 3 days (can't walk, can't sit up) he basically said he'snot really sure what's going on, but it doesn't look too good. He thought if it was a deficiency of anything the shot he gave should correct it, and if it's not that it's marek's/leukosis. He said to give her til next week and she'll either start to improve or rapidly decline. He sees a lot of chickens but he hasn't seen this before. Do you still think I should give her vitamin B? she's not drinking much at all at the moment of some reason. She's getting all her liquid from her food and what I can dropper into her. She had an afternoon where she wouldn't eat but started again yesterday. The vet thought she'd get enough liquid from what she's eating (I'm really worried about syringing water into her beak in case she chokes). She's still not doing the typical marek's pose, but she still can't stand/sit/ walk, either. She's pretty quiet this morning and it's early so I do,t want to disturb her too much just to see how she's going. I think the same as yesterday again. So you still think vitamin b? Do you think stop calcium after all the soft eggs? Thanks again for your time, she's only a small life, but it's a life that is precious to us.

 

[Haunted55]

Hi again.
We called the vet back a couple of times this week, when she first went downhill & then again yesterday. He gave her a multiple vitamin shot, apparently quite a high dose, but thought the staggers were due to her inability to absorb enough calcium, so the vitamin D in it would work. The last egg age laid had a thin shell which would fit with that wouldn't it? Whenw we spoke to him yesterday & said she was largely the same after 3 days (can't walk, can't sit up) he basically said he'snot really sure what's going on, but it doesn't look too good. He thought if it was a deficiency of anything the shot he gave should correct it, and if it's not that it's marek's/leukosis. He said to give her til next week and she'll either start to improve or rapidly decline. He sees a lot of chickens but he hasn't seen this before. Do you still think I should give her vitamin B? she's not drinking much at all at the moment of some reason. She's getting all her liquid from her food and what I can dropper into her. She had an afternoon where she wouldn't eat but started again yesterday. The vet thought she'd get enough liquid from what she's eating (I'm really worried about syringing water into her beak in case she chokes). She's still not doing the typical marek's pose, but she still can't stand/sit/ walk, either. She's pretty quiet this morning and it's early so I do,t want to disturb her too much just to see how she's going. I think the same as yesterday again. So you still think vitamin b? Do you think stop calcium after all the soft eggs? Thanks again for your time, she's only a small life, but it's a life that is precious to us.

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/osteoporosis_and_calcium/page7_em.htm
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081022095847AABpz95

I wanted you to have these 2 links. Look through them and see if any of the foods mentioned apply to your bird. Also, can you post a picture of the bird? I'd like to see overall, each eye, leg positioning. To use a syringe for fluid or a gruel made from feed, open the mouth and put the syringe down the right side of the throat and gently squeeze it in. If you don't have it in the right place you should know. Just stay far to the right and you should be fine. Casportpony is the one to talk to about this. I am still learning myself, but have done it successfully. You could still give the Bs as they are water soluble and are long gone by now. Is she getting any sun? If the eggs are soft shelled, still, then no, don't stop yet. Cripes, this one is a beaut.

The typical Marek's pose makes it easier to spot, but isn't the only thing that shows the disease. If it's the Lymphoid Leukosis, I haven't seen it and I'm not sure if it manifests itself with the same outward symptoms. I'd have to check into that more, I know it's pretty much the sister of Marek's but just not up on the signs. I have evening chores to do right now. Let me think and research some more and I will get back. I'm missing something and want to figure out what.