Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[Haunted55]

Two weeks isn't too late to vaccinate for Marek's is it?

I have Marek's in my adult flock. Well, I really don't have a flock anymore. I did have 5 hens, and all but one has died of Marek's.

I now have chicks. My vet is willing to vaccinate them for $20 each. It will cost me over $100 but what choice do I have?? I still have one hen with mild Marek's symptoms. It is only a matter of time before she dies. He has to order the vaccine so they will be about 2 1/2 weeks before it comes in. They won't be outside in the area where the infected hens have been for at least a month after the vaccine.

Okay, there are a few things needed for information about your flock that is now gone. Are you sure it was Marek's that took them? Was there a necropsy done on any of the birds? When did they die?

 

[Haunted55]

Pigcoon, you can buy the MD-Vac from Jeffers and have it delivered overnight a lot cheaper than and sooner than having your Vet do it.
http://www.jefferspet.com/vaccines/camid/LIV/cc/3501/c2c/sc/




http://jeffers.naccvp.com/view.php?u=jeffers&p=cvp&prodnum=3690294

If this is in stock.... syringes, the vaccine, cooler and shipping is still going to be much cheaper than going to the Vet and you'll have it the next day.

If, like me you have an aversion to needles or just don't think you can do it, find your local 4-H group and talk to an adult involved with them. I am sure you can find help in getting this done.

 

[Haunted55]

Sorry for all of the posts. I want to get the information posted as quickly as possible so Pigcoon can have it now.

Pigcoon, there are a lot of things that have to be taken into consideration here with your situation. I found a post in another thread about Marek's where you said that you had lost and culled some of your birds. The post was on 4/17/13, again, no time frame given. When did this start with your birds? What have you done with biosecurity for your last bird? Where are the chicks now and where did they come from? Is there any possible chance that they were already vaccinated at a hatchery? If they came from a Tractor Supply, they weren't. They do not pay to have the chicks they sell vaccinated. A local farm supply may have, but you need to ask. If a private person, extremely doubtful.

I am going to be brutally honest with you, you are between a rock and a hard place right now. I sound like a broken record, but if your birds have Marek's, then so do you and you always need to be conscious of this. In caring for your last hen you are carring the virus on yourself. Your hair, skin, clothing and footwear are all suspect. Anything you take in and out of your home to care for the hen is also a carrier. Not knowing how you have handled your situation, I can guess that the chicks have already been exposed and if it were me, I'd get the vaccine as fast as I could and get it into them.

 

[madamiec]

After reading the posts in this thread, I am more confused than ever.
I have access to an avian vet once a month, but is not a specialist in chickens by any means.
He said that in all honesty ALL flocks have probably been exposed to Mareks and it depends on whether you have an OUTBREAK of the disease. He said the only way to control it is to vaccinate day old chicks, never bring adult birds into an existing flock (for any other issues not just Mareks), and culling or treating symptoms is up to preference. Is he nuts?
He also recommended as a preventative to any issues is sanitizing/disinfecting cages, coops, etc. as often as possible with a product like Ken'L-Lan-128. I have been using this in my dog kennel as well because Parvo has been bad around here because of raccoon overpopulation.

 

[pysankigirl]

I just learned something by going through some of my information about Cocci for another thread. It seems that chicks that may be too young to show the 'normal' start of symptoms of Marek's, can show extreme cases of coccidiosis that usually will not respond to medicated feed or dosing with Corid. The sulpher drugs are better, but still somehow the Marek's blocks the effectivness of the drugs. Explains a lot of what I went through last summer. Oh gee! Just what we needed right?

interesting.

I think I have an 11 week old chicken with Mareks. She fits the (nerve type) symptoms. I lost a cockerel last week that got caught in the rain. when I found him he was very weak and passed after I brought him into the house to warm him up. I honestly didn't understand why he wouldn't have gotten under cover, but now I suspect maybe he couldn't? this group of chicks got hit HARD with cocci when they were younger. I lost almost half of them despite medicating with Corrid. now I am wondering...

Only the one breed is getting hit. the others aren't so far. None of my chickens are vaccinated so I have ordered the vaccine because it cant hurt. This thread feels like a support group. I may need it.

I have not had a necropsy done yet to confirm. She is still alive and in my bathtub currently eating and drinking fine. Her right foot is curled up and she cant walk. I am watching the others in the coop she was in...I hatched out these birds. so did they get it from my adult flock? I have broodies with babies. wondering if they will live. I am crushed.

 

[Haunted55]

After reading the posts in this thread, I am more confused than ever.
I have access to an avian vet once a month, but is not a specialist in chickens by any means.
He said that in all honesty ALL flocks have probably been exposed to Mareks and it depends on whether you have an OUTBREAK of the disease. He said the only way to control it is to vaccinate day old chicks, never bring adult birds into an existing flock (for any other issues not just Mareks), and culling or treating symptoms is up to preference. Is he nuts?
He also recommended as a preventative to any issues is sanitizing/disinfecting cages, coops, etc. as often as possible with a product like Ken'L-Lan-128. I have been using this in my dog kennel as well because Parvo has been bad around here because of raccoon overpopulation.

Oxine, activated, is probably a better choice for cleaning as it has been shown to kill the Marek's virus with the first application. I've read and been told that the Ken'L-Lan takes a few uses to eradicate all traces.

As for the Vet....my personal opinion and that's all it is, they know what they were taught and what they've seen. Nothing wrong with that, but some of the information they have, if they don't constantly keep up with all the new trials and break throughs, is what they learned in Vet school. My view is this, if you want to bring in new birds, then do so, but make sure you have them isolated for 6-8 weeks so you 'know' they aren't sick and able to infect your existing flock. With the Marek's, I can only give you my experiences. Yes, the best option any of us have available to us, vaccinate your birds!!! I prefer the vaccination that has all 3 vaccines in it that some hatcheries offer, but I currently have some that were only done with the MD-Vac. They are now 4 weeks and counting. We'll see in another few what is going to happen.

I also agree with the Vet about exposure...it's out there. Again, my experiences tell me it's not the little exposures that get them. It's the constant exposure or a bird that is weakened to start with. Then you'll have the disease. So again, yes, I agree with the face value of the statement. If birds always had an outbreak, as your Vet said, there wouldn't be any birds left because Marek's is everywhere. Lol, sad thing, but when it first hit here, I started looking at people in the feed store at the same time I was and wondered what their birds had and what the person was carrying around with them.

Seminolewind called this disease perfectly when she said it was like fighting a ghost. It's constantly changing, moving and you can't see it! All you see are the results. Maybe it sounds weird, but if you have Marek's in your flock already, enjoy the ride. You could cull all and start over after a lengthy wait and constant cleaning or choose to take the chance and see where it leads you. This is what I have done and many before me as well. If you've read the thread, then you know I am currently raising chicks from birds that survived. In fact 2 groups since the original outbreak. At 6 weeks, Control Group #2 is alive and doing very well without any type of vaccination for the disease. I still have a ways to go yet but everyday they live is a good day. That's about all you can do when you start down this path.

 

[Haunted55]

interesting.

I think I have an 11 week old chicken with Mareks. She fits the (nerve type) symptoms. I lost a cockerel last week that got caught in the rain. when I found him he was very weak and passed after I brought him into the house to warm him up. I honestly didn't understand why he wouldn't have gotten under cover, but now I suspect maybe he couldn't? this group of chicks got hit HARD with cocci when they were younger. I lost almost half of them despite medicating with Corrid. now I am wondering...

Only the one breed is getting hit. the others aren't so far. None of my chickens are vaccinated so I have ordered the vaccine because it cant hurt. This thread feels like a support group. I may need it.

I have not had a necropsy done yet to confirm. She is still alive and in my bathtub currently eating and drinking fine. Her right foot is curled up and she cant walk. I am watching the others in the coop she was in...I hatched out these birds. so did they get it from my adult flock? I have broodies with babies. wondering if they will live. I am crushed.

First off, don't feel crushed, there really is life after Marek's. Not the nicest thing to deal with and certainly not what we expected or wanted, but life non the less. Some of these birds may be able to fight it off and never show any of the symptoms.

As for the support group? Pretty much. When I first started this thread, I was a a very low point in my life. I was sitting here bawling my eyes out as I typed and beating myself up about keeping these birds alive. I was reminded of something very important...you play the cards you're dealt. My poor birds were exposed to a very virulent mutation of the Marek's virus. It took 2 necropsies for it to show up as the highest mortality was with the ones vaccinated against it. It was explained that their bodies still hadn't finished building up the resistances they needed to fight it, so it mutated and blew up. Vaccinated birds don't always show the markers during a necropsy, so it took one that hadn't been vaccinated to show what was here.

Now, for your birds..have you tried vitamins with them? Do you have any pictures you could post?

 

[pysankigirl]

Vitamins?

Here she is...she is my favorite pullet. you couldn't find a pullet more sweet than she is.

 

[Haunted55]

Ah, poor girl! A question, what color are her eyes and has the color of them changed?

Vitamins. Sometimes some of these symptoms can be caused by vitamin deficiency and it's always worth a shot at trying them. Even if it is Marek's, it can only do her good. I would get a good vitamin, electrolite to add to her water. I would also get some vitamin E capsules 400iu and squeeze that onto her feed once a day. Some sunshine so she can soak up some vitamin D would be good as well if you have the time to take her outside for a while. She doesn't need that everyday, but when you can. See if there is any change when you give the vitamins. One other thing you might want to try is a probiotic. Resistance to disease and illness starts in the gut and if it's healthy and in balance it will help and could mitigate some of the symptoms.

 

[pysankigirl]

I have that chicken electrolyte packet they sell at tractor supply...is that what you are talking about? I think I have the probiotic one, too...

Her eyes have not changed color. the only symptom really is the foot/feet. sometimes she uses the one okay although in that picture she looks like both are curled.