Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[Haunted55]

Congrats on the piggies!

-Kathy

Thanks Kathy!!!! This was a real trip...we have raised 'meat' pigs before, but never ones we were going to keep. I am just so darned impressed with Belle! She is an awesome mother and in spite of the issues with this birth, she has acted in a way that is more than encouraging to me and her young. I am so very humbled by this experience.

 

[IrishAcreFarm]

Here's something that has worked for me before....sardines with no salt added.  For me this has worked really well.  Now...not so much.  Brats!!!  LOL!  When they took the animal protien out of the bird feed, they denied them of an 'normal' source of protien.  Chickens, ducks, turkeys...they will eat meat in the form fo mice, frogs, etc..  Look on the tag on your grain bag.....none of that listed is there, lol.  Meal worms help, as does the addition of sardines, fresh fish, like haddock, cod, whatever.  It gives them another source that is lacking in their feed.

Have you noticed yet that our birds are eating better than we are?

LOL, you are right, I never even thought about how they no longer use animal protein in feeds! I am going to give the new food, and fish a shot. Hopefully, my ladies will start behaving. I wonder if you are right about hatchery birds being more prone to it, I have a small flock of bantams that I hstched out myself, and they never do this to each other!!

 

[schnebbles]

I'm now worried about Mareks. I have a bantam cochin who is 5 months old that has leg issues, she topples off to the side because she isn't using her left leg. Took her to the vet today and he isn't sure. He said to try steroids and clavamox. If this doesn't help in a week she will probably need to be put down. If this happens, he said necropsy is in order to see what it was.

I'm very worried. He couldn't find anything wrong and said it seems neurological. DIdn't act like he thought it was mareks but didn't rule it out 100%.

I got all of my 8 chickens from breeders on here. None were vaccinated. My thoughts are, if the people I got my birds from (only 3 people) have not had mareks, could my girl have it? I don't have chickens anywhere around where I live that I know of.

If it isn't mareks, can I vaccinate my older birds? They are all around the same age 5 months, give or take a little. if it is mareks, I guess they are all exposed and carriers now. Can a bird carry it and not get it?

I'm very upset as these are my first chickens, my first year with them. I hope that Penny just hurt herself somehow and this will get better but I fear the worst case scenario.

Is there a test they can do for it? he checked for coccidia, but that was clear.

If it were to be from mold (doubt it, but never know), could she improve? if her leg is getting paralysis, can that reverse?

 

[Nambroth]

I'll answer below your questions to the best of my ability. I am not an expert, but like many here, have researched Marek's disease until my eyes have nearly crusted over....

I'm now worried about Mareks. I have a bantam cochin who is 5 months old that has leg issues, she topples off to the side because she isn't using her left leg. Took her to the vet today and he isn't sure. He said to try steroids and clavamox. If this doesn't help in a week she will probably need to be put down. If this happens, he said necropsy is in order to see what it was.

I'm very worried. He couldn't find anything wrong and said it seems neurological. DIdn't act like he thought it was mareks but didn't rule it out 100%.

I got all of my 8 chickens from breeders on here. None were vaccinated. My thoughts are, if the people I got my birds from (only 3 people) have not had mareks, could my girl have it? I don't have chickens anywhere around where I live that I know of.

Yes-- mine came in from the environment. As the primary means of transfer is in chicken dander (which can be tiny particles), it can blow in on the wind for many miles, or be transferred by migratory wild birds. We had a strange migration pattern in wild birds last year and I suspect that's where the Marek's on my property came from.

If it isn't mareks, can I vaccinate my older birds? They are all around the same age 5 months, give or take a little. if it is mareks, I guess they are all exposed and carriers now. Can a bird carry it and not get it?

You can, but it is very questionable if it will do any good. It is generally thought that the vaccine really only helps day-old chicks when administered before they are 36 hours old, and then kept away from Marek's virus for at least 6 weeks (longer is better) to develop a resistance. It won't hurt them to vaccinate when they are 5 months old, but it is unlikely to help- especially if they have been exposed. If your poor hen tests positive, then you can assume any chickens that have lived with her or been near or on areas where she has been in the last several weeks have been exposed. Birds can carry it and not show symptoms, yes.

I'm very upset as these are my first chickens, my first year with them. I hope that Penny just hurt herself somehow and this will get better but I fear the worst case scenario.

Is there a test they can do for it? he checked for coccidia, but that was clear.

They can do a gross necropsy after death, which will examine her body for obvious signs (such as systemic tumors/lymphoma that is seen in the visceral form of Marek's). If no tumors are present, or of you want to be fully sure, blood can be sent to a few different labs for testing. Many people here have sent blood samples to Texas A&M for testing. This blood test can be done on live chickens without harming them if you or a vet is able to do the blood draw properly and can send the sample off. I think it's around $40 plus shipping but please don't quote me on that-- my memory is foggy. I'll dig up the link if you are interested. A blood test via DNA searching for virus markers is the only "for sure" way to know if it's Marek's if visceral tumors are not present. Tumors do not always form, depending on how Marek's shows within the bird.

If it were to be from mold (doubt it, but never know), could she improve? if her leg is getting paralysis, can that reverse?

Paralysis can improve depending on the cause. Even Marek's paralysis has improved in some people's hens, though they usually end up losing the bird months later. However, if it is a deficiency-- yes! She can improve for sure. There are several vitamin deficiencies that can cause paralysis in chickens. I'll see if I can find a link for you...

 

[Nambroth]

Okay, here is something I posted in response to someone else dealing with paralysis problems. I hope it can help:


Quote:

 

[schnebbles]

Thank you very much, I'll read those links tomorrow. I could put a tad bit of vit e in her medicine, and I read vitamin b is good too. I will have to check the vitamins and electrolytes I put in their water. I'll have to look it up online because I tossed the pkg and put them in a bowl. Something tells me that isn't the problem though.

As for the necropsy, I'm not sure what the point would be now, since everyone has been exposed and should I ever get more chicks, they will definitely be vaccinated.

 

[Haunted55]

LOL, you are right, I never even thought about how they no longer use animal protein in feeds! I am going to give the new food, and fish a shot. Hopefully, my ladies will start behaving. I wonder if you are right about hatchery birds being more prone to it, I have a small flock of bantams that I hstched out myself, and they never do this to each other!!

My hatched ones never have either. I think it's because we at home really do take better care of our birds. I m patching things together from what I have heard about how the breeders for the hatcheries work and their birds are given a 'measure' of feed. Umm, okay, I give mine a measure as well. I fill their feeder to the top and then fill it again when it's almost empty...that's a measure right? Lol, the point, we feed our animals as much as they want, with the best we can afford. We give vitamins and treats and companionship. I honestly think this is the reason. It is one particular hatchery's birds that are showing this trait more than the other I used. I really don't think we need rocket science to figure this out. Oh important, some of the birds from the offending group are the same breed as the ones who are not.

 

[Haunted55]

Thank you very much, I'll read those links tomorrow. I could put a tad bit of vit e in her medicine, and I read vitamin b is good too. I will have to check the vitamins and electrolytes I put in their water. I'll have to look it up online because I tossed the pkg and put them in a bowl. Something tells me that isn't the problem though.

As for the necropsy, I'm not sure what the point would be now, since everyone has been exposed and should I ever get more chicks, they will definitely be vaccinated.

You can add a human Super B Complex to their water. The Bs are the neuro vitamins. E can help in certain situations but the Bs normally do it. What I do, I use a regular poultry vitamin added to their water, I then take a Super B Complex and depending on the size of the water container, I crush one and add it in. For a gallon I use a whole one, for a qt. 1/4. It can take up to 5 days for improvement to show. As Nambroth has already said, E and a few of the others are fat soluble and can quickly form toxic levels in the bird's body. This is why I say to just use the reg. poultry vitamin. Or at least start there...if you really want to try the E, I normally just open a capsule and drip it onto the feed every 3 days. This is not a treatment for Wry Neck and I have found that treatment really doesn't help much with suspected Marek's symptoms. Different ball game all together.

One other thing I have found in my Marek's journey....I believe, as do a lot of researchers, etc., that birds who have been exposed to Marek's can benefit from a 'late' vaccination. the idea behind this is the injection of the turkey marek's gives their body an immediate white cell response and makes them better able to fight off any 'wild' Marek's strain they have encountered. This is a personal choice and cannot hurt, no matter what. I found that running turkeys with my Marek's infected birds actually turned things around and the deaths and paralysis stopped. Allowing my chickens to free range with my turkeys is about the same as the vaccination. My birds have Marek's, but exposing them to the turkeys....what can I say. If this is Marek's, unfortunately you will know or suspect long before a necropsy. If these birds have been together up to symptoms, then they've all been exposed now and it is just how much exposure they have gotten. Another experience, belief, whatever, of mine is it's not a casual exposure of this disease that gets them. It's the constant 'in your face' one that will do it. If I was in your position, I would vaccinate even thoughthere are studies that claim it has no chance of working. There are others that say it does. Personal choice.

 

[seminolewind]

Quote: Congrats on the babies! They are certainly cute when small. I'll bet you're back there with them a lot.

 

[seminolewind]

I am not one to believe in vaccinating after exposure. I believe that the vaccination gives them a safe exposure prior to getting exposed to the real thing. However, it's not real clear why the vaccine protects against the cancer or tumors, but not against the disease. So, with Haunted, I agree with trying it and everything else such as B vitamins, etc. And, aside from vaccinating day old chicks, there is so much vaccine left over, it could be worth the attempt. If we try things, it can only contribute to the information that's available now.