Sort of! It is much, much better than nothing. But, the reason the vaccine gives more protection to day-old chicks (when they are vaccinated properly and not exposed for a bare minimum of 2 weeks) is that a newborn Chick's immune system is still developing and, by the nature of immune systems, is "looking" to develop based on the natural flora (viruses and bacteria) it is exposed to via momma hen those first two days... When the chick would be staying very close to mom and still mostly living off of yolk. That's why the vaccine is thought to give less protection to older (unexposed) chicks. It may also be why the "booster" at two weeks old helps some birds that are going to be exposed.
Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock
- Thread starter Haunted55
- Start date
Sort of! It is much, much better than nothing. But, the reason the vaccine gives more protection to day-old chicks (when they are vaccinated properly and not exposed for a bare minimum of 2 weeks) is that a newborn Chick's immune system is still developing and, by the nature of immune systems, is "looking" to develop based on the natural flora (viruses and bacteria) it is exposed to via momma hen those first two days... When the chick would be staying very close to mom and still mostly living off of yolk. That's why the vaccine is thought to give less protection to older (unexposed) chicks. It may also be why the "booster" at two weeks old helps some birds that are going to be exposed.
Sad thing is, we all wish we could start over. I'm being depressing. Sorry. My 2 are still hanging in there, the hen sits to eat. And can aim and pick up food but loses interest after a while. The roo acts pretty much normal.
I don't know if I made a booboo here, but it's weighing heavy on my mind. Yesterday, I naturally put on clothes for the day, went riding, came back and fed and watered the chickens. This morning I put the same clothes on because I was going with a farrier to watch her trim some hooves. The young girl there had chickens and chicks in another area. I stopped to look at them and talked to her, I didn't touch them , but , well, you know, I had exposed clothes on from the day before. I just pray that nothing happens to them.
I wasn't wearing chicken shoes.
I don't know if I made a booboo here, but it's weighing heavy on my mind. Yesterday, I naturally put on clothes for the day, went riding, came back and fed and watered the chickens. This morning I put the same clothes on because I was going with a farrier to watch her trim some hooves. The young girl there had chickens and chicks in another area. I stopped to look at them and talked to her, I didn't touch them , but , well, you know, I had exposed clothes on from the day before. I just pray that nothing happens to them.
I know, I hate being paranoid about that. It's insane. Bizarre how easily it spreads.
- Jul 29, 2013
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Just my $.02 - mareks is already everywhere! Spread, among many ways, in incidents just as you all have mentioned. If any chicken keeper has ever been to a public store/farm to buy food for their chooks, they've aleady exposed their flock. And that's a fact. You can no more take credit or blame for the spread of mareks than the wind can.
This group is the minority when it comes to people having a conscience and not selling/giving away chickens with known mareks in the flock. So many people have no idea they have carriers and sell their chickens every day. Others know they have carriers and sell everyday without a second thought. The few I've asked how they can justify selling and spreading mareks is simply that it is already everywhere.
Personally I've made the choice to stay self contained, but the sad fact is, there are many, many breeders, chicken swaps, etc. and a majority pass it right along knowingly or not.
Just a couple weeks ago an orpington breeder assoc posted they get sad when they get a bird show symptons - paralysis I believe was the symptom one of their chickens displayed. They were gonna cull. But at the same time they were discussing the birds they had for sale. In my possibly misguided outrage, I asked how they could sell with known mareks and their response was it's everywhere. Of course we sell. And, they have hundreds of followers/buyers who don't seem to mind - as a matter of fact, were in agreement. In my opinion, this is why mareks is everywhere! I won't participate, but this casualness is why it's rampant.
I know that I've purchased teenagers who were exposed, because they didn't get symptoms when added to my flock AND they were not vaccinated. So, they had to be raised where there was an immunity of sorts. I've added 3 seperate grouos from 3 seperate breeders, none vaccinated and all still alive now 1.5-2 years later.
And here's the worst part! I've actually considered getting some birds from that Orpington assoc. why? Cause I have mareks and so do they. And, most of their customers have had great experiences which means their flocks also have mareks. But they are resistent!
If all these breeders keep selling resistant birds, than quite possibly, over time as more and more backyard chicken keepers become exposed, it may just limit the problem.
Ridiculous? I'm no longer sure.
I have 6 teenagers left of 13, from hatching eggs I pirchased and one more just started showing paralysis yesterday. So, soon to be 5. Maybe it's the heartsche / anguish over this talking, but I'm afraid people's carelessness has already brought mareks to such a large population of chicken keepers, that for me, right now, my only hope is that more and more mareks resistant chickens hit the marketplace.
Sorry, rant over. Sigh.
This group is the minority when it comes to people having a conscience and not selling/giving away chickens with known mareks in the flock. So many people have no idea they have carriers and sell their chickens every day. Others know they have carriers and sell everyday without a second thought. The few I've asked how they can justify selling and spreading mareks is simply that it is already everywhere.
Personally I've made the choice to stay self contained, but the sad fact is, there are many, many breeders, chicken swaps, etc. and a majority pass it right along knowingly or not.
Just a couple weeks ago an orpington breeder assoc posted they get sad when they get a bird show symptons - paralysis I believe was the symptom one of their chickens displayed. They were gonna cull. But at the same time they were discussing the birds they had for sale. In my possibly misguided outrage, I asked how they could sell with known mareks and their response was it's everywhere. Of course we sell. And, they have hundreds of followers/buyers who don't seem to mind - as a matter of fact, were in agreement. In my opinion, this is why mareks is everywhere! I won't participate, but this casualness is why it's rampant.
I know that I've purchased teenagers who were exposed, because they didn't get symptoms when added to my flock AND they were not vaccinated. So, they had to be raised where there was an immunity of sorts. I've added 3 seperate grouos from 3 seperate breeders, none vaccinated and all still alive now 1.5-2 years later.
And here's the worst part! I've actually considered getting some birds from that Orpington assoc. why? Cause I have mareks and so do they. And, most of their customers have had great experiences which means their flocks also have mareks. But they are resistent!
If all these breeders keep selling resistant birds, than quite possibly, over time as more and more backyard chicken keepers become exposed, it may just limit the problem.
Ridiculous? I'm no longer sure.
I have 6 teenagers left of 13, from hatching eggs I pirchased and one more just started showing paralysis yesterday. So, soon to be 5. Maybe it's the heartsche / anguish over this talking, but I'm afraid people's carelessness has already brought mareks to such a large population of chicken keepers, that for me, right now, my only hope is that more and more mareks resistant chickens hit the marketplace.
Sorry, rant over. Sigh.
Just my $.02 - mareks is already everywhere! Spread, among many ways, in incidents just as you all have mentioned. If any chicken keeper has ever been to a public store/farm to buy food for their chooks, they've aleady exposed their flock. And that's a fact. You can no more take credit or blame for the spread of mareks than the wind can.You rant is worth more than 2 cents, really. I've drawn the same conclusions.
Sorry, rant over. Sigh.
Chicken swaps are so much fun. It's hard not to participate.
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Grygon mentioned on another post that her ducks get yeast flakes (and her chickens?) for the improvement of resistance, which may be a good thing, or at least a healthy thing. Yeast Flakes (Frontier) on amazon is the one I ordered because it's loaded with B vitamins.
I sometimes wonder if coconut oil will help. A world famous doctor that I knew did research on it slowing alzheimers. And I use it on my dog and the seizures happen 50% less than they did . For some reason it coats the nerves.
I sometimes wonder if coconut oil will help. A world famous doctor that I knew did research on it slowing alzheimers. And I use it on my dog and the seizures happen 50% less than they did . For some reason it coats the nerves.
[/quote]
Yes, but... I'm almost positive that my juvies came with Marek's. I wasted a lot of time and money trying to figure out what was going on. The breeder never told me that he had Marek's. I lost 6 of 9. There was the cost of the birds, the vet, the numerous 'cures' I tried, and finally the necropsy. I am guessing $500 because the breeder wasn't honest. That really gripes me.
Quote:
I am not trying to argue with you! You have a lot of valid and very important points. I am just going to argue with this fact, because I see it parroted so often on articles, and I take issue with it....
I really have to argue with the logic that Marek's is "Everywhere". I used to think this because I see how easily it spreads, and most of the home-written articles I've read pretty much suggest that IT IS EVERYWHERE and every flock has been exposed, know it or not.
I really looked into this and I cannot believe this. Marek's virus, once taken in to the chicken's body, creates latency if the bird does not become symptomatic. This is what the herpesvirus does! It does it in people, it does it in animals, it does it in chickens, it does it in turkeys. Simply, if a chicken is exposed, they will either show symptoms, become a latent carrier, or both. Even if they never shed a single virus capsule (though they probably will at least once). So, if an exposed bird is tested, via DNA/PCR testing, it would show up as positive.
Why then, do people's birds/flocks show negative results sometimes?
It is not everywhere. It IS common! Heavens, yes! It is way too common! And it is so easily spread, yes! Much to our sadness!
But it is not "everywhere".
Knowingly using this logic to excuse the spread of this virus into otherwise unexposed birds is, frankly, unethical. Be it by apathy or simple ignorance, it is unethical. Period.
I know some people don't mind too much the loss of a bird here and there. And some people get lucky. Some people may get exposed birds and never have a problem, thus never a complain with the breeder. But the Marek's is now there. And maybe it wasn't before. So now they breed and sell, and sometimes their customers don't get so lucky. The cycle continues.
But some folks keep chickens as pets, at at the very least, very loved livestock. Selling or giving away Marek's exposed birds, knowingly, and without letting the new owners know is very low.
Now, if someone has an exposed flock and they are breeding, and let the customer know so that they make an informed choice ("I am getting a bird that has probably developed natural resistance, but might be able to spread this if I have unexposed birds"), that's fine. It may, as mentioned above, be to the benefit of backyard chicken keeping over the long term!!
But you know, after seeing birds go through this, I would never condone knowingly selling/giving away Mareks+ birds without educating a customer/adoptee beforehand. The *shrug* "It's everywhere anyhow" attitude sure gets my feathers in a ruffle.
Sorry for the rant! Really, this is not aimed at anyone here. Just today I discovered that someone said that they have long had an exposed flock and yet I see them selling/giving away birds. I cannot imagine knowingly giving this virus to anyone's flock. It seems cruel.
I am not trying to argue with you! You have a lot of valid and very important points. I am just going to argue with this fact, because I see it parroted so often on articles, and I take issue with it....
I really have to argue with the logic that Marek's is "Everywhere". I used to think this because I see how easily it spreads, and most of the home-written articles I've read pretty much suggest that IT IS EVERYWHERE and every flock has been exposed, know it or not.
I really looked into this and I cannot believe this. Marek's virus, once taken in to the chicken's body, creates latency if the bird does not become symptomatic. This is what the herpesvirus does! It does it in people, it does it in animals, it does it in chickens, it does it in turkeys. Simply, if a chicken is exposed, they will either show symptoms, become a latent carrier, or both. Even if they never shed a single virus capsule (though they probably will at least once). So, if an exposed bird is tested, via DNA/PCR testing, it would show up as positive.
Why then, do people's birds/flocks show negative results sometimes?
It is not everywhere. It IS common! Heavens, yes! It is way too common! And it is so easily spread, yes! Much to our sadness!
But it is not "everywhere".
Knowingly using this logic to excuse the spread of this virus into otherwise unexposed birds is, frankly, unethical. Be it by apathy or simple ignorance, it is unethical. Period.
I know some people don't mind too much the loss of a bird here and there. And some people get lucky. Some people may get exposed birds and never have a problem, thus never a complain with the breeder. But the Marek's is now there. And maybe it wasn't before. So now they breed and sell, and sometimes their customers don't get so lucky. The cycle continues.
But some folks keep chickens as pets, at at the very least, very loved livestock. Selling or giving away Marek's exposed birds, knowingly, and without letting the new owners know is very low.
Now, if someone has an exposed flock and they are breeding, and let the customer know so that they make an informed choice ("I am getting a bird that has probably developed natural resistance, but might be able to spread this if I have unexposed birds"), that's fine. It may, as mentioned above, be to the benefit of backyard chicken keeping over the long term!!
But you know, after seeing birds go through this, I would never condone knowingly selling/giving away Mareks+ birds without educating a customer/adoptee beforehand. The *shrug* "It's everywhere anyhow" attitude sure gets my feathers in a ruffle.
Sorry for the rant! Really, this is not aimed at anyone here. Just today I discovered that someone said that they have long had an exposed flock and yet I see them selling/giving away birds. I cannot imagine knowingly giving this virus to anyone's flock. It seems cruel.
- Jul 29, 2013
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I don't disagree Nambroth. That was exactly my point. With the popularity of backyard chickens growing by the day and Because there are so many with infected flocks that are selling - and no way to stop them - new flocks are infected daily. Some know what they are doing, others have no idea. They may never had a bird with symptoms but instead only carriers. Those birds, in another flock can wreak havoc. But, mareks is everywhere. It doesn't reliably show up in tests. I know that first hand! My very first birds brought in the mareks thoigh I couldn't confirm it. I've lost countless birds with the standard mareks symptoms and not one bloodtest or necropsy showed it until this last batch of chicks. And yes, I did sell some birds before I knew as the prior tests came back as not mareks. That's what leads me to say people can sell without knowing that they're spreading mareks.
BigE, I too have spent a fortune and really would have loved a breeder to have told me what they were passing on to my flock. But they didn't. And they won't. And no matter how 'griped' we feel, well, really what can we do about it? Just look at the world we live in. Not too many seem concerned with ethics.
That's where my 'hope' for resistant chicks being sold comes in. Because without that thought this whole marek's thing is just too darnn depressing.
Seminolewind, you are correct about the vaccine being the best hope. And that's the only chicks I'll add, but even then, it's far from foolproof.
If it isn't everywhere now, it won't take long with the growing numbers of folks getting into chickens. I'm so tired of seeing NPIP thrown around as if they're guaranteeing healthy flocks, when in fact, I'vd personally run into two NPIP breeders with known marek's in their flocks. And they don't tell their customers. False advertising? Not technically. But unethical, hell yeah!
Lol, I vote for resistant breeding in all flocks everywhere and a mandatory requirement for all breeders in all states to vaccinate.
BigE, I too have spent a fortune and really would have loved a breeder to have told me what they were passing on to my flock. But they didn't. And they won't. And no matter how 'griped' we feel, well, really what can we do about it? Just look at the world we live in. Not too many seem concerned with ethics.
That's where my 'hope' for resistant chicks being sold comes in. Because without that thought this whole marek's thing is just too darnn depressing.
Seminolewind, you are correct about the vaccine being the best hope. And that's the only chicks I'll add, but even then, it's far from foolproof.
If it isn't everywhere now, it won't take long with the growing numbers of folks getting into chickens. I'm so tired of seeing NPIP thrown around as if they're guaranteeing healthy flocks, when in fact, I'vd personally run into two NPIP breeders with known marek's in their flocks. And they don't tell their customers. False advertising? Not technically. But unethical, hell yeah!
Lol, I vote for resistant breeding in all flocks everywhere and a mandatory requirement for all breeders in all states to vaccinate.
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