Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[ten chicks]

Nambroth,thank you for the link to article you wrote regarding Marek's,i found it very informative and it answered several of my questions.

I agree Marek's is not everywhere. I have never had a case of Marek's nor has anyone i know had Marek's Disease in their flocks. I would like to keep my birds safe,so i am very cautious when i am at feed stores b/c i realize that to some it is not a big deal if their birds have Marek's,but to me it is.

 

[Beldenfarm]

This thread is fantastic for information on mareks!! I do have a question though. My beloved silkie girl I think has come down with mareks. She doesn't walk anymore just sits all day. She was very weak at first but we have nursed her back to health so she eats quite a lot and drinks. Her legs just stick out and she can move them she just doesn't want to stand or walk on them! She had been like this for two weeks. Sleeping a lot but very alert when she's awake and very eager to eat her food and yogurt.
My question is, does this sound like mareks, if so how are the odds of her walking again or will she not survive at all? I have heard some miracle stories of birds just walking like they never were sick after some time but I would like to know if anyone else has had that happen? We cannot bear to cull her we love her like a pet I am just wondering if she will always be sitting? We have placed her when she isn't being fed inside in the pen still in a little box of straw so she's comfy. The rest of my flock has obviously been exposed to what she has before she was showing symptoms so there's no point in segregating her anyways now.....
Or does it not sound like mareks? If it isn't what's wrong!

Thank you!!

 

[seminolewind]

Beldenfarm, it sounds like Marek's but could be other things. Best thing to do is get some blood drawn and sent to Texas A&M. You may want to try vitamins. Is the hen wasted? Skinny?

 

[seminolewind]

CeeJ, vaccinating Is not foolproof, I agree. I have my first vaccinated hen dying/dead.

 

[ten chicks]

Posting a link regarding vaccinations from Mike the chicken vet,in article he addresses the Marek's vaccine. Majority of people on this forum probably already know this information,but for others like myself who are deciding if they should/should not vaccinate,this is informative. I have decided to not vaccinate my birds,my understanding is that a "killed" vaccine offers not much protection,and a live vaccine means birds can shed virus,which could infect other birds.

http://www.the-chicken-chick.com/2012/03/answers-from-chicken-vet-on.html

 

[realsis]

Please folks correct me if I'm wrong here but the mareks vaccine sterotype3 is a LIVE turkey derived virus and vaccination does NOT mean they will slough off the mareks virus!! Its NOT even the mareks virus that you are vaccinating with in the first place!! Why does so many folks think by vaccinating the
vaccinated birds will be walking around shedding
mareks. That just NOT true. Your not even using the
mareks virus. It is a turkey virus that brings the
immune response.so why would they shed mareks if
vaccinated with sterotype3? The shedding of the virus with sterotype3 is not a good reason not to vaccinate your flock. Because sterotype3 is NOT the mareks virus.

 

[ten chicks]

I have read many articles stating that virus can be shed by vaccinated birds,if they were vaccinated with a live virus vaccine. Links to a couple.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps030

http://www.poultryclub.org/poultry/health-and-diseases/

 

[Nambroth]

I have read many articles stating that virus can be shed by vaccinated birds,if they were vaccinated with a live virus vaccine. Links to a couple.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps030

http://www.poultryclub.org/poultry/health-and-diseases/

This is correct. However, your original article was focusing on Infectious laryngotracheitis (ILT), which is a whole different set of problems. Because the serotype of ILT used in the vaccination is THE SAME ONE that causes the birds to become sick, it is like comparing apples to oranges when we are looking at Marek's vaccinations!
Therefore, with ILT, if you vaccinate with the live vrius, the birds can shed the virus, and infect other birds.
When choosing to vaccinate for ILT, much care must be taken and you might weigh your decision very carefully, taking into consideration all factors of your flock.
In this case, when discussing ILT vaccination, the article from Mike the chicken vet is very wise. For ILT vaccination, one should carefully think it through...


But we are talking about Marek's disease, here.
Marek's uses a different method of vaccination. The vaccine can (and usually does) contain live virus, yes!! But the live viruses used in Marek's vaccine is a different species than what causes chickens to become sick. Therefore it does not matter if vaccinated birds shed the vaccination virus-- it can not make them sick. HVT MDV-3, which is what most vaccines for Marek's are at this time, is a different species than MDV-1 which is the Marek's disease Virus that infects chickens and causes illness. A chicken can shed HVT until the cows come home and other chickens can't get sick from it.
It is important to note that the HVT MDV-3 does not actually become infectious in chickens and can not replicate itself in huge numbers in chickens the way that MDV does (I can actually find no literature that suggests it can replicate itself at all in a chicken, but I am not 100% sure on this), so the only time a vaccinated chicken is likely to possibly shed HVT MDV-3 is immediately after vaccination, from the injection site. It would be a very small amount.
But it doesn't matter because it is not the same species that makes them sick with Marek's Disease anyhow.

This basic misunderstanding of the difference between ILT vaccinations and MDV vaccinations (which both can use live virus) is how a lot of the Marek's vaccine rumors started, I think.

 

[ten chicks]

Thank you,but my original post was regarding Marek's,ILT was mentioned b/c in Canada(possible elsewhere)they have been using a combined vaccination HVT+ILT(Innovax-ILT). It is confusing,the articles i provided links for say that chicks vaccinated with live virus can shed virus to unvaccinated birds. I will be discussing this with my vet,see what he has to say regarding vaccinated birds shedding virus to unvaccinated birds.

 

[realsis]

This is correct. However, your original article was focusing on Infectious laryngotracheitis (ILT)[COLOR=0000FF],[/COLOR][COLOR=000000]which is a whole different set of problems.[/COLOR] Because the serotype of ILT used in the vaccination is THE SAME ONE that causes the birds to become sick, it is like comparing apples to oranges when we are looking at Marek's vaccinations!
Therefore, with ILT, if you vaccinate with the live vrius, the birds can shed the virus, and infect other birds.
When choosing to vaccinate for ILT, much care must be taken and you might weigh your decision very carefully, taking into consideration all factors of your flock.
In this case, when discussing ILT vaccination, the article from Mike the chicken vet is very wise. For ILT vaccination, one should carefully think it through...


But we are talking about Marek's disease, here.
Marek's uses a different method of vaccination. The vaccine can (and usually does) contain live virus, yes!! But the live viruses used in Marek's vaccine is a different species than what causes chickens to become sick. Therefore it does not matter if vaccinated birds shed the vaccination virus-- it can not make them sick. HVT MDV-3, which is what most vaccines for Marek's are at this time, is a different species than MDV-1 which is the Marek's disease Virus that infects chickens and causes illness. A chicken can shed HVT until the cows come home and other chickens can't get sick from it.
It is important to note that the HVT MDV-3 does not actually become infectious in chickens and can not replicate itself in huge numbers in chickens the way that MDV does (I can actually find no literature that suggests it can replicate itself at all in a chicken, but I am not 100% sure on this), so the only time a vaccinated chicken is likely to possibly shed HVT MDV-3 is immediately after vaccination, from the injection site. It would be a very small amount.
But it doesn't matter because it is not the same species that makes them sick with Marek's Disease anyhow.

This basic misunderstanding of the difference between ILT vaccinations and MDV vaccinations (which both can use live virus) is how a lot of the Marek's
vaccine rumors started, I think.




This is EXACTLY what I was trying to say but you said it MUCH better than I.