Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[KAT Bird]

Aw, I am so sorry. RIP, Squeaky.

Thank you Nambroth and Casportpony. The vet just called and said it wasn't Marek's but it was Egg Yolk Peritonitis. I guess I'm glad it wasn't Marek's, she was one of my unvaccinated survivors. But I wish she showed some symptoms sooner so I could have taken her to the Vet earlier. She was running on Sat for a piece of cantaloupe and yesterday she was out scratching & pecking with the other girls. It wasn't until today that she showed any signs something was wrong.

 

[KAT Bird]

What exactly did your necropsy report say? Can you get a copy of it, maybe?
The visceral tumors are a pretty straight giveaway, but it is important that the tumors alone can't show the difference between Marek's and Avian Lymphoid Leukosis. Usually only very experienced veterinary poultry examiners can tell the difference. Did a state lab do your necropsy, or a local vet?

Really, to be totally honest, Marek's does seem far more common than ALV, so the chances that it is Marek's is higher. But, I just wanted to mention ALV, just in case.

Anyhow, as to why your other birds didn't die-- it's possible they built up resistance. Where are they all from? Are they all from the same line, or are they hatchery birds, or?? There are SO many variables. Were any vaccinated?

A few things to consider:
1) Any chicken exposed to Marek's virus (it is inhaled, via dust/dander) will contract the virus, regardless of vaccination, and will shed it. According to a study I read, vaccinated birds shed the same amount of virus as unvaccinated birds. They will shed varying amounts of the virus until they die.
2) Marek's virus has been found to live outside of a host, in the environment ( coop, run, yard, etc) for a minimum of 1.5 years.

Given these two things, it would probably be irresponsible to give roosters away. If you do, just fully inform people that the roosters are probably carriers of Marek's virus and can infect any birds they come into contact with. That's the sad, unfortunate, and crummy truth.
I'm not sure what you mean by taking care of someone else's chickens. If you mean going to someone else's property and taking care of thier birds, you probably can, but I'd advise you to shower fist and get a set of shoes that you've never worn out to your chickens before. When I visit other people's flocks, I take a bottle of Odoban with me and spray my shoes well, as well, before getting out of the car. This might seem extreme but I am very dedicated to not needlessly spreading the disease if I can help it.

All this said, this disease can be confusing even for those of us that have been eyebrows-deep in research!!  Please don't feel too discouraged. We are all supportive of each other here.

When I clean my coop, I use a shop vac with a drywall filter, and suck the dust out that way. I try to do it on a day that isn't too windy. I scoop and shovel out as much bedding as I can before I run the shop vac, so that the shop vac doesn't fill up immediately.
Another option is to clean out as much as you can without the leaf blower, then on a very dry day, wet the dust down and wipe it out manually. It's a drag to do it this way, trust me, but it's an option. Let the coop dry completely before putting fresh bedding in.

I am going to do the PCR test from Texas A&M. I know the necropsy results said Marek's but I want to be 100% sure. The gross necropsy results were indicative of ALV. The pathology results changed the diagnosis to Marek's, I believe because of the mix of cells present in the lesions. I think it will come back Marek's but it has been bugging me that they are so similar.

 

[Nambroth]

I am going to do the PCR test from Texas A&M. I know the necropsy results said Marek's but I want to be 100% sure. The gross necropsy results were indicative of ALV. The pathology results changed the diagnosis to Marek's, I believe because of the mix of cells present in the lesions. I think it will come back Marek's but it has been bugging me that they are so similar.

Be aware that birds can be co-infected with both Marek's and ALV... The only way to know if ALV is present is to have the PCR test run for that, too. (ugh!). I don't know if Texas A&M does that test, I'm sure you can call and find out if you want to do it.

 

[KAT Bird]

Be aware that birds can be co-infected with both Marek's and ALV... The only way to know if ALV is present is to have the PCR test run for that, too. (ugh!). I don't know if Texas A&M does that test, I'm sure you can call and find out if you want to do it.

Good point about the concurrent infections. I hadn't thought of that! Do you know of any other places that do the PCR testing?

 

[Nambroth]

Good point about the concurrent infections. I hadn't thought of that! Do you know of any other places that do the PCR testing?

It's probably worthwhile to ask Texas A&M, but I do know that University of GA's Poultry sciences does it. I sent samples to them (via my vet) and they did PCR testing for Marek's and ALV for me last year. They went so far as to sequence it several times as they found an ALV marker, but determined it was 'old genetics' and not from latent or active virus.

217 Poultry Science Building
Athens, GA 30602-6772
Phone: 706-542-1333
Fax: 706-542-8383
http://www.poultry.uga.edu/

 

[seminolewind]

Today we lost Little Squeaky. This came suddenly. She was fine this weekend but this morning she was in the corner of the coop on the floor. She was weak, though still had use of her wings and legs. Labored breathing but not opened beaked. I took her to the vet and she died while he was examining her. He did an x-Ray and she had fluid in her lungs and air sacs. After she passed, fluid was running from her beak. He is going to do a necropsy and hopefully I will know more. She didn't follow the previous symptoms of the Marek's disease in her flock mates but then nothing is typical with Marek's

Sorry for your loss, Kat.

 

[fuzziecreatures]

What exactly did your necropsy report say? Can you get a copy of it, maybe?
The visceral tumors are a pretty straight giveaway, but it is important that the tumors alone can't show the difference between Marek's and Avian Lymphoid Leukosis. Usually only very experienced veterinary poultry examiners can tell the difference. Did a state lab do your necropsy, or a local vet?

Really, to be totally honest, Marek's does seem far more common than ALV, so the chances that it is Marek's is higher. But, I just wanted to mention ALV, just in case.

Anyhow, as to why your other birds didn't die-- it's possible they built up resistance. Where are they all from? Are they all from the same line, or are they hatchery birds, or?? There are SO many variables. Were any vaccinated?

~~ Final Report from Penn State Veterinary Diagnostics Lab
Diagnosis : Marek's Disease - visceral form
Lab Findings Greatly enlarged, pale, liver with irregular white foci which takes up almost 90% of the coelomic cavity. Enlarged pale pink spleen with multiple irregular white foci present. Greatly enlarged, pale, mottled kidneys. Irregular, enlarged, pink harderian gland Mild yellow peritonitis with white pinpoint foci present Ovary appears to be infiltrated with irregular cream-colored neoplastic tissue. No follicles are present. No visible lesions in peripheral nerves, bursa or other tissues.
Histopathology Liver, spleen, intestines, trachea: neoplastic lymphocytes had largely disrupted and overtaken normal tissue architecture. The neoplastic cells show diffuse degeneration, but appear to be somewhat pleomorphic.
Microbiology Aerobic culture and salmonella culture - no growth Mycoplasma gallisepticum PCR negative
Virology Avian Influenza Virus AI VI HA 2 separate samples - Negative
Parasitology Positive for ascarid type ova at a count of 1,400/gram of feces using the Modified McMaster Technique
No other cause of death except Visceral Marek's Disease except maybe the roundworms. Now I'm going to do a twice yearly deworming schedule with Wazine or something that I don't have to wait on the eggs. They found no other worms.

Most are from Meyer Hatchery (no vaccine given), some from my in laws farm, 2 from a local breeder, some from TSC (McMurray), the rest from hatching of our own. None vaccinated. The deceased bird was one from TSC last march. She was just coming of age to lay, her sisters already started. I love the idea of my birds developing resistance in themselves... they eventually pass the resistance to their offspring right?

 

[Nambroth]

Hm.. Now, I am no expert but that is a pretty clear case of Marek's if I've read one, based on gross necropsy! The fact that the bursa looked normal suggests that you weren't dealing with ALV. Further combined with the through necropsy by Penn state, I'd say to trust the necropsy.

What are the ages of your other chickens?
That is the nice thing about resistance to a RNA virus when naturally developed... it is a genetic resistance, so yes... the birds that build resistance are more likely to pass it on with every surviving generation. It's not immunity-- it is a genetic predisposition for the immune system to be able to fight the virus off early.
It can take several generations, though, just to warn you. If you breed, make sure you have a plan for extra roos (etc) as you can't responsibly give them away or sell them.
It's up to you if you want to vaccinate any new birds that come in. There are benefits, even when trying to breed for resistance.

 

[fuzziecreatures]

Ages are from 4yrs to 6mos + currently.

I have a plan, I had an ex-coworker ask me about my spare roos before spring camp. I could also see if she just wants some eggs to hatch, bound to get some roos

 

[Nambroth]

The good news is that your older birds are, from everything I understand, much less likely to get the visceral form if they do show signs. It's not impossible, but generally it seems like after 16 months or so of age they are less susceptible. They can still get other problems, but at least it is not the terrible lymphomas.
I wish you all the best, I know how crummy it feels to find out one has it in the flock..! We're here if you need support.