Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[mightymax]

I personally choose not to immediately cull those with what I refer to as "milder" symptoms just so I can spend some extra quality time with them, but once I begin to see ANY major signs of distress or wasting, then I'll cull immediately. But that's just me and it's actually probably a pretty selfish thing to do but they're my pets and I love them all. It's always hard to know when's the right time or the right thing to do. And it never seems to get any easier, for me at least. But that's just my opinion. Everybody's different and you have to be true to yourself first and foremost (and to your pet too!).
-kim-

 

[lalaland]

I went out with scambled egg and she gobbled it down. Kept missing pieces and could only get the really big blobs of egg. nickel size and smaller were left alone even though she was pecking the dish for more. I can see she has vision problems - I think she only has partial vision in one eye, and totally blind in the other. Must have come on suddenly because she was able to get into the coop last night without any problem. It is a ramp and I don't think she could have done it with the vision she has now.

She is navigating now by touch - can't see where the kennel wall is.

I am going to cull her, she is stressed, kind of panicing - I think because of the vision thing. I am gone from home for 13 hour days and can't give her the care she needs - she clearly couldn't see well enough to find food on her own this morning.

picking up turkey poop and feathers this afternoon - an hour and a half away - but worth it if I can get some immunity with the rest of the flock.

I hate this.

I am so glad I can talk about this with you all - it helps to understand what is going on and helps me, too in dealing with it.

 

[seminolewind]

ok, so the path lab prelim finding is mareks. I asked about a PCR and doc found this out for me:
One PCR test available at University of Texas requires chicken blood collected in EDTA (noncoagulated) to be tested for Marek's disease virus nuclei acid. this test is approx. $30 per sample and would be conducted on birds that are still alive.

A second test, available at University of Georgia, is conducted on tissue or blood. I called the lab and the technician believes they can test brain that has been previously fixed in preservative, but she will have to confirm. This test is approximately $110.

Please keep in mind that both of these tests only indicate that birds have been exposed to the MD virus and do not prove that MD is the primary disease. Many birds can test positive for MD with such tests because the virus is ubiquitous, but many exposed birds do not develop clinical signs or lesions because they have been vaccinated.

Please consider the options and let me know how you would like to proceed. I am glad you asked me about this because I did not know the test was now offered by diagnostic labs. I never have the opportunity to pursue this route in small flocks because the owners do not want to incur the added expense (plus a positive PCR test is not a definitive diagnosis).

I just heard a commotion in the flock and went out and found rooster beaking a 5 year old astrolorp hen. Picked her up, she is bleeding from head and incredibly light - I see her eyes, both of them, have changed to grey. Her crop is empty and should be full at this time in the morning.

Guess rooster figured out she was sick and was going to cull her for me.

Eye color,....she has mareks, doesn't she?

I would think that a positive on a gross view or microscopic view of Marek's tumors is pretty accurate. The PCR's we have learned are pretty accurate on positives but false negatives seem to happen more often (re Nambroth's negatives and mine on Marek's test PCR).

It depends on what you want to know I think. Did the bird die from Marek's or is your flock exposed to Marek's. The three I sent were 5-6 year old unvaccinated, and seemed to die of something other than Marek's. No positives yet.

I would do one live bird blood for a PCR. Unless you are absolutely sure that your flock has Marek's.
There are usually several parts to a lab dx'ing a positive: gross tumors, microscopic tumors, and a PCR. Possibly symptoms and a flock history.

Do you know what the pathologist is basing his dx on? Is it the type of tumor?

 

[seminolewind]

I personally choose not to immediately cull those with what I refer to as "milder" symptoms just so I can spend some extra quality time with them, but once I begin to see ANY major signs of distress or wasting, then I'll cull immediately. But that's just me and it's actually probably a pretty selfish thing to do but they're my pets and I love them all. It's always hard to know when's the right time or the right thing to do. And it never seems to get any easier, for me at least. But that's just my opinion. Everybody's different and you have to be true to yourself first and foremost (and to your pet too!).
-kim-

Kim, that's my problem too. It's hard to make the decision because it's hard to know if they're suffering. One of my hens just died of egg yolk peritonitis , and I wonder if she should have been spared the pain and how much pain there was. How does one know what they want?

Not only that, wasting is a symptom displayed by most sick birds and paralysis can be caused by any illness that can affect the nervous system. As well as blindness and cataracts. Tough tough.

 

[seminolewind]

Seems to me if turkey waste exposure helps, it would have to be an exposure prior to an exposure to chicken Marek's. It would also mean keeping those birds unexposed to the chicken flock while they build antibodies. Antibodies need time to multiply to the numbers needed prior to a true exposure.

 

[lalaland]

seminolewind,
I have the same thoughts re: turkey poop - that it is too late for the antibodies. But maybe if they haven't gotten the virus yet? this would prompt them to start building antibodies? Is exposure to and getting the virus the same thing?

I have emailed the vet and asked about whether I could get a necropsy on her included in the roosters - it is the same fee for one or multiple and I'm hoping he would be ok with this counting as a multiple although technically it isnt.

I also asked about occular form and a neuro form - I'm unclear about whether it is the same virus but each bird reacts differently or if there are different forms which are indicated by which type of symptoms. Or maybe occular and paralysis are both neuro ....feeling pretty ignorant.

I feel like I am jumping off a bridge and am not sure whether the water is deep enough: turkey poop will either a) kill the flock by exposing them to who knows what or salmonella b) make no difference, or c) help with future immunity?

The austrolorp hen was vaccinated.

 

[lalaland]

He originally said the rooster had encephalitis, and tested negative for two viruses that cause that, waiting on newcastle disease test which also causes encephalitis. The encephalitis causes the partial paralysis of the legs. Thinks the newcastle test will be negative. No tumors. A little cocci but not an overload. Can find no other cause for the paralysis, so presumes mareks.

Rooster was alive when I brought him to the lab. He was well nourished, color was good, eyes were clear and normal, no respitory issues.


Seminolewind, now with hen with grey eyes and sudden blindness, I feel pretty positive that it is mareks. I considered hauling her in for a blood test, but the test, plus the $100 bucks more for the texas test results would tell me ....mareks?

 

[casportpony]

If any of you can get Marek's eye pictures and are willing to share, one of the pathologists at UC Davis would love to see them. He's actually interested in all eye pictures.

-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

Sad news here... One paralyzed hen with funny eyes and one hen with two chicks that seems almost blind. Poor thing, she can't see her babies.

-Kathy

 

[BuffyBugSlayer]

Hi All, I am not sure where to post this but I have been reading up on Marek's the last couple of days and this seems like a knowledgeable bunch so I thought I would post here.

I have an 18 week old pullet that has been limping for at least four days. I was gone for a week with a house sitter in charge so not sure exactly how long she has been limping but wasn't limping when I left on the 4th. She is showing no other symptoms but I can find no obvious reason for the limping. She is out moving around with the others, is eating and is not lethargic.

I guess my questions is...if it is Marek's will it progress rapidly from limping to other symptoms? Or because she has been limping for several days and has no other symptoms is it likely not Marek's?

Thanks for any input. I hope I am just being paranoid but want to be prepared if I am not.