Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[Going Quackers]

Following this thread, even if i am not dealing with it, good basic info to swirl through my head anyways lol

Now may i ask, how soon do symptoms appear? like could a bird be fine in the AM and then not by evening with Zero signs prior or is that not how this works?? If my head has wrapped this about right, i could have birds on my farm who are carriers but completely symptom free but could pass it on to new birds? and they not be able to 'fight it'

The term chasing Ghosts pretty sure that term i found in this thread, is darn correct. I have no idea what i am dealing with right now with a 6mth old cockerel, but i am not naive so will not rule out Mareks until proven otherwise, trouble is i have never had a sick chicken and produced young for the first time with my own chickens this year, would i have not seen something? perhaps this guy is my carrier but at 6mths just suddenly present a problem when fine that AM and prior?.

I hope my queries are not inappropriate for this thread but i don't know where else they'd belong. At this point if he does not matter how it's no emergency, if it's here it's here. I can only hope it's not the end of my flock.

 

[Nambroth]

Now may i ask, how soon do symptoms appear? like could a bird be fine in the AM and then not by evening with Zero signs prior or is that not how this works?? If my head has wrapped this about right, i could have birds on my farm who are carriers but completely symptom free but could pass it on to new birds? and they not be able to 'fight it'

All answers are not absolute with this disease, as it keeps us on our toes about what we know and what we don't.
It is understood that the 'incubation' period is approximately three weeks from the time of exposure (an exposed bird is pretty much an infected bird, as all they need to do is breathe in dust to get it). That is for the visceral form. It may or may not present symptoms, depending on: the age of the bird, the bird's immune system, stress, and a billion other things. After that, a bird may carry the virus in latency forevermore, and may never show symptoms, or may show symptoms suddenly during a period of stress or poor immunity. So yes, in theory, a bird could be fine one day and show paralysis the next.

Quote:
Many of us with Marek's positive flocks have noticed that the 5-8 month old range seems to be in the most danger. There are always exceptions, but when pullets come into lay, or when roosters start maturing, they have a tendency to succumb more than older birds do. I am not sure if it is the stress of coming into "puberty", hormone levels, etc... but it really does seem to him them hardest during this age group.

Despite all of this, I am not trying to suggest you do or do not have Marek's. There are many other ailments that can cause similar problems. If he does not make it, perhaps you can consider a necropsy and testing to help you put the puzzle together.

 

[seminolewind]

Quote:

If one chicken in your flock is positive, you can assume they all are. As chickens age, their resistance to Marek's increases. Mareks' is spread by dander and chicken dust and it would be almost impossible for a chicken to not pick it up from another.

I get a flu shot every year, seems some people get the flu and some don't and it has to do with the immune system . However, if you get a cold, you have immunity to that cold. Unfortunately there are 2000 different cold viruses.

 

[seminolewind]

Following this thread, even if i am not dealing with it, good basic info to swirl through my head anyways lol

Now may i ask, how soon do symptoms appear? like could a bird be fine in the AM and then not by evening with Zero signs prior or is that not how this works?? If my head has wrapped this about right, i could have birds on my farm who are carriers but completely symptom free but could pass it on to new birds? and they not be able to 'fight it'

The term chasing Ghosts pretty sure that term i found in this thread, is darn correct. I have no idea what i am dealing with right now with a 6mth old cockerel, but i am not naive so will not rule out Mareks until proven otherwise, trouble is i have never had a sick chicken and produced young for the first time with my own chickens this year, would i have not seen something? perhaps this guy is my carrier but at 6mths just suddenly present a problem when fine that AM and prior?.

I hope my queries are not inappropriate for this thread but i don't know where else they'd belong. At this point if he does not matter how it's no emergency, if it's here it's here. I can only hope it's not the end of my flock.

Not inappropriate questions. !

 

[lalaland]

Well, I took the grey eyed hen (sorry I didn't get pics - it was dark outside and too much commotion at the path lab) and the rooster I needed to cull anyway, who appeared perfectly healthy, to the path lab this morning. The vet professor I am working with was really interested in her eyes, and wanted to know if I felt the pupil size had changed. I couldn't answer that, I haven't noted pupil size at all.

She didn't have funny shaped irises, just grey. It was hard to take her down because she wasn't as close to death as the legbar rooster I brought down last week, where death was a kindness. She kind of chirped and talked most of the way down.

He did say that he didn't think there was a way for small flock owners breeding their own birds to successfully vaccinate because of the nature of the vaccine being kept frozen, etc.

 

[mightymax]

As far as the actual pupil changing color or shape, I can definitely say that in my flock that has not occurred (yet?). But I have noticed that on some, their eyes in general and their irises in particular, become a dull gray color with an almost opaque film on top, as if they had cataracts. I usually find that the more severely clouded they look, the further along they are in the disease process. Also interesting (well, to me at least...lol) is that I have found that I can usually predict fairly early on, and with better than average accuracy, who is going to be the next one to go down 'Misery Road' by evaluating the way they 'hold' their eyes. Their eyelids in particular. Sounds strange, I know, but my talking cat and crystal ball say they believe me !!! (Figured that by now we could all use a little levity)
Anyway, I've found that prior to their eyes ever becoming gray, the next one to become severely ill will usually have been seen 'holding' his eyelids at half mast, so to speak. It's like they're going about their daily routine constantly squinting like it's really bright outside and they left their sunglasses back at the coop. Like I said, sounds strange, to say the least, but then again, I've seen a lot of strange things just by observing my chickens. And so far I've been spot on with my predictions. Oh, and they'll oftentimes start to sit differently when they go to roost at night. Can't quite put my finger on exactly what it is that's different about it yet, but I'm starting to think that it has something to do with the positioning of their head and crop in relation to the rest of their body. I'll keep you all posted on my findings (which may turn out to be a stunning scientific breakthrough or perhaps just some useless drivel from an 'older' but not 'old' crazy chicken lady !!!)
Take Care All !!!
-kim-

 

[Going Quackers]

As far as the actual pupil changing color or shape, I can definitely say that in my flock that has not occurred (yet?). But I have noticed that on some, their eyes in general and their irises in particular, become a dull gray color with an almost opaque film on top, as if they had cataracts. I usually find that the more severely clouded they look, the further along they are in the disease process. Also interesting (well, to me at least...lol) is that I have found that I can usually predict fairly early on, and with better than average accuracy, who is going to be the next one to go down 'Misery Road' by evaluating the way they 'hold' their eyes. Their eyelids in particular. Sounds strange, I know, but my talking cat and crystal ball say they believe me !!! (Figured that by now we could all use a little levity)
Anyway, I've found that prior to their eyes ever becoming gray, the next one to become severely ill will usually have been seen 'holding' his eyelids at half mast, so to speak. It's like they're going about their daily routine constantly squinting like it's really bright outside and they left their sunglasses back at the coop. Like I said, sounds strange, to say the least, but then again, I've seen a lot of strange things just by observing my chickens. And so far I've been spot on with my predictions. Oh, and they'll oftentimes start to sit differently when they go to roost at night. Can't quite put my finger on exactly what it is that's different about it yet, but I'm starting to think that it has something to do with the positioning of their head and crop in relation to the rest of their body. I'll keep you all posted on my findings (which may turn out to be a stunning scientific breakthrough or perhaps just some useless drivel from an 'older' but not 'old' crazy chicken lady !!!)
Take Care All !!!
-kim-

That doesn't sound crazy, that sounds like a good flock keeper.. everyone should know what is normal behaviour for their animals that helps you at least get a jumpstart on treatment and/or know if their is trouble before it's like wham in you're face.

 

[Going Quackers]

All answers are not absolute with this disease, as it keeps us on our toes about what we know and what we don't.
It is understood that the 'incubation' period is approximately three weeks from the time of exposure (an exposed bird is pretty much an infected bird, as all they need to do is breathe in dust to get it). That is for the visceral form. It may or may not present symptoms, depending on: the age of the bird, the bird's immune system, stress, and a billion other things. After that, a bird may carry the virus in latency forevermore, and may never show symptoms, or may show symptoms suddenly during a period of stress or poor immunity. So yes, in theory, a bird could be fine one day and show paralysis the next.


Many of us with Marek's positive flocks have noticed that the 5-8 month old range seems to be in the most danger. There are always exceptions, but when pullets come into lay, or when roosters start maturing, they have a tendency to succumb more than older birds do. I am not sure if it is the stress of coming into "puberty", hormone levels, etc... but it really does seem to him them hardest during this age group.

Despite all of this, I am not trying to suggest you do or do not have Marek's. There are many other ailments that can cause similar problems. If he does not make it, perhaps you can consider a necropsy and testing to help you put the puzzle together.

Thanks. I did make enquirers yesterday and can have a necropsy performed it'll cost me 60$ so far though, my bird is alive but at least i know if we loose him i can find out if that is what it was or at least eliminate that as the cause.

 

[Going Quackers]

Not inappropriate questions. !

Okay, thanks, just didn't want to clog up a thread with my ramblings.

 

[lalaland]

As far as the actual pupil changing color or shape, I can definitely say that in my flock that has not occurred (yet?). But I have noticed that on some, their eyes in general and their irises in particular, become a dull gray color with an almost opaque film on top, as if they had cataracts. I usually find that the more severely clouded they look, the further along they are in the disease process. Also interesting (well, to me at least...lol) is that I have found that I can usually predict fairly early on, and with better than average accuracy, who is going to be the next one to go down 'Misery Road' by evaluating the way they 'hold' their eyes. Their eyelids in particular. Sounds strange, I know, but my talking cat and crystal ball say they believe me !!! (Figured that by now we could all use a little levity)
Anyway, I've found that prior to their eyes ever becoming gray, the next one to become severely ill will usually have been seen 'holding' his eyelids at half mast, so to speak. It's like they're going about their daily routine constantly squinting like it's really bright outside and they left their sunglasses back at the coop. Like I said, sounds strange, to say the least, but then again, I've seen a lot of strange things just by observing my chickens. And so far I've been spot on with my predictions. Oh, and they'll oftentimes start to sit differently when they go to roost at night. Can't quite put my finger on exactly what it is that's different about it yet, but I'm starting to think that it has something to do with the positioning of their head and crop in relation to the rest of their body. I'll keep you all posted on my findings (which may turn out to be a stunning scientific breakthrough or perhaps just some useless drivel from an 'older' but not 'old' crazy chicken lady !!!)
Take Care All !!!
-kim-

yeah, the iris is the colored part surrounding the black pupil. Since it is a ring, if there were irregularities in the iris, instead of a perfectly smooth round edge, it would have a bump or jagged edge. I don't know whether it is the iris or the pupil that is mis-shaped - it is the border.
Vet asked about the pupil. and commented on the irises.

Interesting that you have seen the holding eyelids differently and something different about the way they roost. I have a pullet that is "different" but I can't exactly put my finger on why I think that. Am watching her like a hawk, though.

I noticed in the two that had mareks (the one necropsied and the grey-eyed hen) that they both smacked their beaks - kind of a stacotto beak chatter if that makes any sense when they were drinking.