Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[lalaland]

I used to do the same thing-- buy bulk spices from an Indian grocer. Now, I don't, because a lot of our imported spices can have lead in them. Not to be alarmist, and I wish it weren't true, but it's worth mentioning here since lead toxicity in chickens can.. well, look like Marek's disease! : https://preventdisease.com/news/10/032210_indian_spices_lead_poisoning.shtml
http://www.astaspice.org/the-american-spice-trade-associations-statement-on-lead-in-turmeric/
There are many other sources that indicate that spices, including turmeric, have been found to have varying levels of lead (sometimes quite a lot ) but I don't want to spam them all here. Google "Turmeric lead"

Turmeric is thought to be beneficial however-- plus, I like cooking with it, so I started to grind my own. It's not too hard, fortunately, and all it takes for the amounts I need is a cheap coffee/spice grinder. http://www.freshbitesdaily.com/homemade-turmeric-powder/

this is ridiculous! its a crazy world out there, and so aggravating when you are trying to do the best thing and find you have unwittingly possibly made things worse. geesh.
Thank you for bringing this to my attention, I was totally oblivious to the lead danger.

Are you giving your handground tumeric to your flock? or using it solely for your personal use? if you give to the chickens, I'm curious about the doseage you are using.

Off to research whether I can test for lead in tumeric easily or not.....I know there are home lead testing kits.....

 

[ochochicas]

My 6 month old pullet that has been limping for two months has a good appetite now but is not walking any better. I have another pullet that is now limping on the right leg and has been like this for about 2 weeks (she is 3 months old). On top of that I have a one year old hen that seems to be walking funny today. Can someone remind me how long it takes a chicken to succumb to Mareks once they start showing signs? The signs are all pointing to Mareks, but the chickens keep hanging on. I'm now treating the 6 month old for Clostridium infection, and the other two are being treated for vitamin deficiency. I suppose the only way I'll know for sure is necrospy, but I hate to sacrifice one of them before it has a chance to recover.

 

[seminolewind]

My first roo lasted 2 weeks before he couldn't move anything below his ears. I've also seen some get paralysis, then get this loss of depth vision where they aim for food but can't pick it up. However, my last hen that did that actually died from worm damage, cocci and e. coli on necropsy.
If the limping goes no further, maybe it's in remission. I've also had one who got paralysis, she lived in my bedroom for 6 weeks, learned to walk again, and is a big fat healthy egg layer that's 3 years old now.
If they are all good weight and eating, maybe they'll grow old with you

My best guess would be that if one had Marek's, it would be over a period of weeks, but it would be a noticeable decline, including wasting away.

 

[ochochicas]

Thanks for the comments. These birds are eating well. Unfortunately the first bird became quite ill with what I believe to be Clostridium perfringens. Now she is on antibiotics and I'm tubing her water with vitamins. She is now reluctant to try to stand or move at all, which is a problem. Her chest is becoming all bruised from laying on it all day I'll give her more time to see if the antibiotics work or not. Both younger hens are holding their weights surprisingly.

 

[seminolewind]

I've been past the paralystic youngsters, and had a hen waste to nothing last summer. I had nothing to lose but to worm her, and start 7 days of Tylan and Sulfadimethoxine, and she's since been a food monger fatty with a daily bulging crop. Then, I noted that my flock of 7 older chickens were skinny and not laying, a sort of long term thing. So I gave them the treatment as well, and 2 months later they are hefty and eating like hogs. So I guess from reading it's made me a believer of sub clinical enteritis possibly involving clostridium perf, e.coli, and cocci. secondary to immune suppression ala Marek's. So you treating for entiritis just reminds me of my current treatment du jour. When you have nothing to lose, you just try anything.

 

[lalaland]

seminole, did you administer the tylan and sulfadimexothine in water or injections? dosage?

 

[ochochicas]

I've been past the paralystic youngsters, and had a hen waste to nothing last summer. I had nothing to lose but to worm her, and start 7 days of Tylan and Sulfadimethoxine, and she's since been a food monger fatty with a daily bulging crop. Then, I noted that my flock of 7 older chickens were skinny and not laying, a sort of long term thing. So I gave them the treatment as well, and 2 months later they are hefty and eating like hogs. So I guess from reading it's made me a believer of sub clinical enteritis possibly involving clostridium perf, e.coli, and cocci. secondary to immune suppression ala Marek's. So you treating for entiritis just reminds me of my current treatment du jour. When you have nothing to lose, you just try anything.

I agree - just keep trying since there is nothing to lose. This poor girl was hatch immuno-compromised I believe. She has never been quite right. Since I really don't know for sure what is happening with her, I am going to suspect that she had coccidia and worms which further compromised her immune system, which then lead to Clostridium. The darn girl is a fighter though. It takes all my mental and physical strength to tube feed her because she fights so hard. The Tylan runs out this weekend and the new bottle isn't here yet. I guess it might be time for her to try to hold her own.

 

[seminolewind]

seminole, did you administer the tylan and sulfadimexothine in water or injections? dosage?

I used a teaspoon of each in a gallon of water for 7 days.

 

[seminolewind]

Seems that the necropsies I sent all had an element of opportunistic bacteria and cocci in their cause of death. They were all negative for Marek's, but Nambroth and I think that's because when they get older, unless they have active tumors, they can test negative. I started thinking about what they all have in common, plus the demises that were not sent. I had a rooster who got a simple thing like dry pox and it almost killed him. Then he started getting bumblefoot lumps-continuously and between the pain, limping, no fat left on his body, and the thought of torturing him more removing each bumble, I had him euthanized. So that fit with immunosuppression as well. Enteritis is a frequent killer. It's become the #1 problem of production chickens because the laws have changed not allowing antibiotics use as a preventative. Even in Europe.

Chickens carry cocci, e. coli, and clostridium naturally in their intestines. Problem is when immunocompromised, they multiply out of control. Then I've been reading a lot about non antibiotic fed birds getting something called a sub clinical infection, where cocci or clostridium causes unthriftiness, but doesn't kill them. That's what I figured I treated my chickens with because they weren't exactly sick.

I also think as bad as the different strains of Marek's have become, there has also been a movement towards chickens that have the ability to fight it off or put it in remission sometimes even at the point where the tumors have already affected the nerves but are stopped by the immune system. So people have either limping birds that don't get worse, or recovering birds. As far as I'm reading about so many have chickens that don't get any worse or improve.

I'm not a scientist, pathologist or professional. I just do a lot of reading and watch trends and listen to what members experience . It is very interesting about the Valtrex.

As for the vaccine, $20 may seem like a lot of 1,000 doses, but with this pharma companies, even if they produced vials for 100 chickens, I doubt they would sell it for 1/10th of the price.

 

[lalaland]

Seminole, do you do probiotics at all with your flock? Just curious as I've read, can't remember where, that it is helpful for the compromised immune systems in chickens for those gut bacterias.