Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[lalaland]

Here's my final report on a one year old BO hen who arrived with others a year ago with 10 others, all hatchery vaccinated. They were raised for 3 weeks in my spare room and tended to with gown and scrubbed hands. Then they went into a hutch with a wire floor on my patio for another 3 weeks. At 6 weeks they went into a pen in the area of the rest of the flock. The hen in question was the only one who Corid .
They have lived in an open pen since 6 weeks old.

PCR velogenic primer/probe set is mandated and samples will be sent to NVSL for confirmation and further analysis. This test was developed by USDA for surveillance and is validated in poultry and wild waterfowl.
Virology Specimen Test Name Buff Orpington Hen - AVIAN - Chicken - Orpington - Female - 1 Years Multiple Tissues - Fresh Tissue - 3 Send Out (V.SENDOUT) (Test Performed at TVMDL) 3/5/15: Marek's Disease Virus (PCR-MDV-PCR): Positive This positive result could be due to vaccination or infection.


Necropsy Interpretive Summary chickens are the most important natural host for Marek's disease virus, a highly cell-associated but readily transmitted alpha herpesvirus with lymphotropic properties of gamma herpesviruses. The disease is highly contagious and readily transmitted among chickens. The virus matures into a fully infective, enveloped form in the epithelium of the feather follicle, from which it is released into the environment. It may survive for months in poultry house litter or dust. Dust or dander from infected chickens is particularly effective in transmission. Once the virus is introduced into a chicken flock, regardless of vaccination status, infection spreads quickly from bird to bird. Infected chickens continue to be carriers for long periods and act as sources of infectious virus. Shedding of infectious virus can be reduced, but not prevented, by prior vaccination. Unlike virulent strains of Marek's disease virus, which are highly contagious, turkey herpesvirus is not readily transmissible among chickens (although it is easily transmitted among turkeys, its natural host). Attenuated Marek's disease virus strains vary greatly in their transmissibility among chickens; the most highly attenuated are not transmitted. Marek's disease virus is not vertically transmitted. Vaccination is the central strategy for the prevention and control of Marek's disease. The efficacy of vaccines can be improved, however, by strict sanitation to reduce or delay exposure and by breeding for genetic resistance Vaccines are also effective when administered to embryos at the 18th day of incubation. In ovo vaccination is now performed by automated technology and is widely used for vaccination of commercial broiler chickens, mainly because of reduced labor costs and greater precision of vaccine administration. under typical conditions, vaccine efficacy is usually >90%.
Bulletin(s) Effective December 19, 2014 we are no longer performing Drug Screening or Toxicology analyses. Please contact us at

I'm so glad you posted these results.

I guess if I get more chicks I will have to build a separate coop to keep them for 6 months....could try armorfirelady's hoop coop. Not getting chicks this year, but maybe next. And I like the little hopeful "breeding for resistance" in case I end up with roosters and broodies.

 

[ochochicas]

Thanks for posting the report. Very unlucky that your hen was vaccinated and still died from Marek's.

I'm glad you posted the full report about how vaccination and sanitation are key to controlling Marek's. I just got done reading on a different forum where everyone was telling all the new-to-chickens members not to vaccinate. First they said vaccines are BAD BAD BAD and that they aren't organic so not only will they kill your chickens, but also yourself. Then they said just let the weak chickens die from Marek's since only the strongest ones deserve to live. Talk about lack of education over there. Then someone had the nerve to call me "unteachable".

The same people who don't want to vax their chickens also don't vaccinate their dogs or children. Unfortunately their kids are bound to grow up just as clueless as their parents.


My Marek's vaccine is ready to go for when my new chicks hatch (in the incubator). If I can help them live a longer, healthier life, then that is my responsibility. The state vet told me not to vaccinate chicks that are raised by a broody hen since they are likely to be exposed to the virus in addition to the vaccine and will have a higher mortality rate. Does anyone have experience with this?

 

[Nambroth]

Karen, with apologies if you mentioned it and I missed it, do you know exactly what vaccine(s) were used on your poor BO hen?

 

[seminolewind]

Hey, no apologies. I got them from MurrayMcMurray. I know I did call them a few years ago and they used that triple component one-the one we can't get.

I've read how to aid the vaccine in working many times. In fact, in the 80's, production companies couldn't figure out why their vaccinated chickens were still dying, and the Amish chickens were not. The difference was: all in all out, disinfecting between hatches, keeping things clean.

Since we have the lesser Marek's vaccine, I do delay exposure due to this. 3 weeks gown and glove, 3 weeks in a hutch on my patio (now in the garage for less exposure.) Those chickens including the dead one had all that, and were put in a pen on the edge of all my other pens and on virgin ground with no coop, just a covered roost pole. I don't think she ever looked as good as her sister.

Ocho, I had hatched 3 eggs under a broody a year ago. One got paralysis and wasting and was euthanized at 6 months. The next one was at 8 months, same thing. The 3rd lived a year and got sick and died. I have read that if you vaccinate Marek's brooded Hen chicks, the vaccine does not work well. These were not vaccinated, just hatched by mom.

I have my vaccine waiting in the fridge as well.

 

[mightymax]

Well daylight savings time is upon us once again and with the nice weather and beautiful , sunny days we've been having out here, I just knew
that it wouldn't be long before some of my favorite chickens were going to start developing signs and symptoms of illnesses that, no doubt in my mind, were contracted due to having a compromised immune system directly related (in my opinion) to them having.Marek's Disease. And I wasn't disappointed. Went out this morning to feed and
water everyone and when I do I always give each animal a quick once over to make sure that, besides still having all of their limbs connected and in the right spots, that none of them are displaying any signs of illness. For quite sometime now I've been happy to report that besides not losing a single one to Marek's Disease, I also have not had any of my chickens become ill with anything else either !!! That all changed today. One of last years summer hatches, a splash silkie named Reagan, didn't come out of the coop this morning until about an hour after I'd arrived, which is not normally like her. As soon as I was not 10 feet away from her I could hear it...the distressed breathing, the clicking noise they make when they have to breath through their beaks really hard just to get past the mucous, the gurgling. That awful gurgling sound.
I have her isolated, although sometimes I think I'm actually doing all of them a disservice by doing so, for various reasons that I won't go into (at least not right now...lol !!!)
Anyway, I did all the things you're supposed to do when you have a sick chicken and I dosed her with some Tylan 50 (it's the best thing I had on hand), keeping her warm and toasty in her own condo and covered her with one of mom's old tablecloths (you know, the type they had back in the 70's that were as thick as horse blankets and twice as ugly (wait a minute...I had one of those horse blankets back then...and I actually thought is was pretty...lol !!! Thank goodness for a change in taste). So there you have it. Winter's over, Spring has hit, and Summer will arrive shortly...and so will Marek's.

Goodnight,
-kim-

 

[seminolewind]

Sorry about that.

Even Nambroth has had enough with these low immune system illnesses. I use Tylan and Sulfadimethoxine. I like Sulfadimethoxine because it kills cocci (that is always waiting for an open door), and it's antibiotic activity as well.

I hope she makes it. It's good if they continue to eat.

 

[mightymax]

Quote:
Your state vet told you this? Interesting. I understand his (or her) observation that the chicks will most likely be exposed to the virus when hatched under a broody hen because as soon as they pip beneath her, they're ripe for the picking as far as the virus is concerned. But what I'm not clear on is why does he or she believe that they will have a higher mortality rate if you vaccinate them? Some sort of 'double jeopardy', I wonder? Is that even possible? I mean, if I go to a friends house to visit and after I get there I find out that she's down with the flu, does that mean that I'm going to get the flu too? Maybe. Maybe not. As has been mentioned before, that will depend on way too many variables for me to even hesitate a guess. But what I'm getting at is this...if I go over to that same sick friend's house and discover that, not only is she sick, but her daughter is as well, will I now run the risk of becoming 'doubly sick'? And how would I know if I did? What does a double dose of sickness look like? I'm not trying to be facetious or anything, just playing the devil's advocate.
I really do have all these potentially hurtful and yet somewhat ridiculous questions running around in my head. IDK. If giving the broody hen's chicks the vaccine has even the slightest chance of keeping them healthy then I would vaccinate them. I guess I feel that dying from too much of a good thing (a double dose of live virus by way of the vaccine), is just a better way to go. Especially when you consider all the 'what about's' and 'what if's'.






Quote:

Is that due to the pipping scenario I referred to above? Or are there more reasons that people say it doesn't work well when done on broody hatched chicks? Gets me wondering about vertical transmission...I know they 'say' it's not transmitted that way, but who really knows...they can say whatever they want to suit their purpose...they 'say' a lot of things...

Oh my gosh, I gotta go. I'm starting to sound paranoid...lol !!! (And I live nowhere near Idaho...)

-kim-

 

[Nambroth]

Hey, no apologies. I got them from MurrayMcMurray. I know I did call them a few years ago and they used that triple component one-the one we can't get.

If they use the three-for-one (my nonscientific term) vaccine, that should have Rispens in it... which CAN throw a false positive on PCR. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0034528810002675 Did they feel she died from Marek's based on PCR or did she have other signs? I feel like a doofus asking because you surely already said somewhere. Sorry about that... my BYC reading has been really fragmented after we had the loss in my family.

 

[Nambroth]

My Marek's vaccine is ready to go for when my new chicks hatch (in the incubator). If I can help them live a longer, healthier life, then that is my responsibility. The state vet told me not to vaccinate chicks that are raised by a broody hen since they are likely to be exposed to the virus in addition to the vaccine and will have a higher mortality rate. Does anyone have experience with this?

I am also very curious about this. Not being sarcastic! I am wondering why it would matter. From my understanding the vaccine wouldn't really help chicks raised under a broody if there is a guarantee that they will be exposed (from the coop/ nest box/ momma hen herself)... after all as mentioned above, they'd inhale the virus right at the start and so would either build an appropriate immune response (or not) making the vaccine pointless. But I can't understand why it could cause them harm, either. It seems like it'd just be a waste of money and effort, and not something that would cause a higher mortality rate. Very curious!

EDIT: I want to be clear that in the above scenario I am talking about a broody raising chicks in a Marek's positive flock. If Marek's is not confirmed in a flock, I think it is still worth vaccinating broody chicks, though with the disclaimer that this situation is not considered ideal for the vaccine to have the maximum chance at working, in the chance that Marek's is in the flock undetected.

 

[Nambroth]

Is that due to the pipping scenario I referred to above? Or are there more reasons that people say it doesn't work well when done on broody hatched chicks? Gets me wondering about vertical transmission...I know they 'say' it's not transmitted that way, but who really knows...they can say whatever they want to suit their purpose...they 'say' a lot of things...

Oh my gosh, I gotta go. I'm starting to sound paranoid...lol !!! (And I live nowhere near Idaho...)

-kim-

Haha... careful, you are starting to venture into no man's land there! We have to rely on science, as it's the best we've got, but still keep an open mind to new findings. Genetic testing is accurate enough that until I am told otherwise, I believe that they have done enough testing to show that it is not transmitted vertically via DNA testing. The commercial egg and meat industry has dumped a large sum of money into some types of testing (the ones that affect productivity of course) that funny enough, chickens have more science behind their health issues than most of our other pets do.

ALV, Avian Lymphoid Leukosis, on the other hand, has been shown to be vertically transmitted, and it can look a lot like Marek's.