Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[seminolewind]

Hello I am new to this forum (joined last night) and posted a question last night and was told I should go on here and ask for advice. I am also new to having chickens. It has been a very heart wrenching ordeal for me so far. I got 4 baby chicks last year which I thought where vaccinated form a local small breeder (stated on website) and then got a rooster shortly there after. (same person.) We did everything right. I cleaned the coop everyday, organic food, deworming, treats, free ranging etc. These guys where my babies. Then it all changed. I notice the rooster was very aggressive and with only 4 hens he was "over breeding" so I gave him back to breeder but before that my RIR was not looking good and I knew something was not right. Shortly after she pasted away. I took her to our State Poultry lab for a necropsy done and she had a ton of tumors and it was Ovarian Cancer which was unusual for such a young chicken (about 1 yr old) then my Amauracauna started showing signs of not being well and passed I also did necrop on her and it was Mareks!! The breeder said no it wasn't and many things can look like Mareks so what did I know but I should of know the state poultry lab would know. Then my Brahma goes broody and the breeder gave me eggs to hatch ( I know not a smart idea) and then my Frizzle, who was pretty much by herself while brahma was laying on eggs) (she and Brahma are my favorite) goes sick and dies quickly ( I took last 2 birds that died to vets but they where not much help) and I got the prelim report and also states Mareks. I am sick and losing my favorite frizzle has taken a toll on my. I still cry for that one.

Now my dilemma is the poultry lab has told me to depopulate (and other sources) what I have and start over with only vaccinated chicks. I am not sure I can do that to these little guys but I also don't want to put them through the disease. I know stress brings it on and we have had some stressful situations around here with all these loses in a small flock. I just can't see putting my Brahma down, she seems to be healthy and going through all this has done well. All she has ever wanted to do was be a mommy (she goes broody alot) and has done a great job so far. I want to be logical about this not emotional but that is hard. What would you do in my situation? I was thinking if culling is what I need to do (they where around my frizzle in the coop shortly after they where born) I know...I am learning. But she showed no signs at the time. Can I keep Brahma and get vaccinated chicks and bring her and chicks inside for awhile and let here raise them? Can I switch them like that or what?

Sorry for the long article but so much has gone on. I don't want to give up on chickens They are so much fun to have! I really miss my girls.

Thanks

I'm probably just repeating all the other posts, just buy vaccinated chicks from now on and quarantine them for 3-6 weeks no contamination and keep the ones you have now. There is nothing you can solve by culling anyone at this time. I know it's sad (to me) that I can't let a hen hatch eggs and brood chicks.

 

[rebrascora]

Quote:
This is so true! It's far easier to deny you have Marek's than to identify it and admit it and try to deal with it. It is incredibly common but most backyard people and small breeders have a hen that gets sick and dies and they just dispose of it. People want to believe it's a vitamin deficiency or botulism that's causing lameness or wry neck or some other disorder that is causing their chick to be hunched and stop eating, but the truth is that Marek's is an extremely contagious virus that is pretty much everywhere, so the odds are that most people with unvaccinated chicks have it and some that have been vaccinated too. The problem with it is that it exhibits in so many different ways. The lameness is common but not exclusive. Some are bright eyed and eat well but lose weight, some stop eating and go hunched. Some show ocular signs. Some die without warning and show no signs and others linger for months. And some miraculously get better when you think there is no hope. My two girls are still doing well and my unvaccinated chicks that are broody reared within the Marek's flock are 7 weeks yesterday and strong and healthy so far.

Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that it is in the breeder's interests to deny that it is Marek's even when confronted with state lab evidence. The chicks she sold you could still have been vaccinated but if she has Marek's in her flock and didn't strictly quarantine the chicks after vaccination they could still develop it.

I seem to be lucky that the Marek's here is not nearly so aggressive and most of my chicks are surviving it. My heart goes out to those of you who are losing so many to it. I now wonder if reports of my experience and optimism is necessarily helpful to those of you who are suffering such heavy losses, by perhaps giving you false hope. I'm really rooting for those of you who are soldiering on and experimenting with vaccination though.

What I wanted to add was that keeping stress levels low is one of the big key factors. Young cockerels running around terrorising pullets and hens was definitely a trigger factor for my outbreak. Sadly the lads apart from my two established roosters are now confined to a bachelor pad for the welfare of the girls, who are my primary concern.

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[ochochicas]

I have a new rooster, too! I was told he was vaccinated, but I don't really believe the lady I got him from. He came from a hatchery, so it is possible, but he was part of one of those end of the year box specials so I really doubt they were vaccinated.

I vaccinated him when he got here and then quarantined him for 10 days. The only thing worse that could happen to my flock is if they got Avian Influenza, so I'm not too worried about a long quarantine anymore. The bird that brought Marek's into my flock was quarantined for 2 months (in the house) and that didn't do any good.

With the exception of one Turken, all my cockerels have died from Marek's. So much for the idea that roosters are resistant. I lost all three boys from my November hatch plus two more than I bought in December that were already a few months old. Fortunately I was able to find my new rooster and save him from going to the auction/freezer. He is super sweet - even nicer than my old roosters.

 

[saltandpepper2]

This is so true! It's far easier to deny you have Marek's than to identify it and admit it and try to deal with it. It is incredibly common but most backyard people and small breeders have a hen that gets sick and dies and they just dispose of it. People want to believe it's a vitamin deficiency or botulism that's causing lameness or wry neck or some other disorder that is causing their chick to be hunched and stop eating, but the truth is that Marek's is an extremely contagious virus that is pretty much everywhere, so the odds are that most people with unvaccinated chicks have it and some that have been vaccinated too. The problem with it is that it exhibits in so many different ways. The lameness is common but not exclusive. Some are bright eyed and eat well but lose weight, some stop eating and go hunched. Some show ocular signs. Some die without warning and show no signs and others linger for months. And some miraculously get better when you think there is no hope. My two girls are still doing well and my unvaccinated chicks that are broody reared within the Marek's flock are 7 weeks yesterday and strong and healthy so far.

Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that it is in the breeder's interests to deny that it is Marek's even when confronted with state lab evidence. The chicks she sold you could still have been vaccinated but if she has Marek's in her flock and didn't strictly quarantine the chicks after vaccination they could still develop it.

I seem to be lucky that the Marek's here is not nearly so aggressive and most of my chicks are surviving it. My heart goes out to those of you who are losing so many to it. I now wonder if reports of my experience and optimism is necessarily helpful to those of you who are suffering such heavy losses, by perhaps giving you false hope. I'm really rooting for those of you who are soldiering on and experimenting with vaccination though.

What I wanted to add was that keeping stress levels low is one of the big key factors. Young cockerels running around terrorising pullets and hens was definitely a trigger factor for my outbreak. Sadly the lads apart from my two established roosters are now confined to a bachelor pad for the welfare of the girls, who are my primary concern.

.

it's true that this disease is everywhere. In fact, I have not met ONE person that lives near me that has not had birds die with mareks symptoms multiple times, they just don't know that there's a name to the cause of the deaths.

 

[Nambroth]

Thank you for that post. Make sense. It is a disease that just won't go away. Sure is an awful disease. I don't think I have the heart to cull these guys. I just need to "farm up" as I have been told and realize I may lose some and that is hard for me. I get so attached. I guess I am fearful of losing these guys....

Thanks to everyone for their input. I will pray this all works out.

I agree... I am the same way. I am very attached to each and every bird, and hate to lose any of them or see them suffer. This disease has caused some to get out of chicken keeping after the last bird passes away. For me, the joy of having them... and knowing I gave them a good life... is still worth it to me. It's just very hard to lose them sometimes.

 

[spoiledgachix]

Believe me I thought about giving it all up when one by one they all where dying. I was heart broken and cried over these birds. I just don't know if I can get tough. I lost pretty much my whole flock. I got 4 and one died couple weeks after I got them and got a replacement so out of 5 chickens I have lost 4! That is why I think my mortality rate on this flock of 6 is high. We have heavy woods in our back yard so there are tons of wild birds around, and our neighbors birds are always in our yard. (Our chickens got get threats from our garden and they try to come for some) but I know they are vaccinated but our other neighbors birds come over sometimes but I don't know if they are vaccinated so I can't really keep a closed flock since everyone comes over!

I have a question. One of the baby chicks is not looking good. She just sits in a corner and doesn't move much. Wings are down and I don't see her (not the I am there 24/7 but I go to check on them a lot to clean up) going to the food and water. She tilts her head back like she is drinking but is not since she just is in a corner. She closes her eyes a lot. She is over 2 weeks old now. She just doesn't look alert. I looked at her poop and it looked more green then brown which I know is not good. Is she to young to have Marek's yet? I picked her up and she just was still and closed her eyes. I haven't heard her peep like the others. She doesn't follow my hen (mom) around either.

 

[rebrascora]

At that age my concern would be coccidiosis rather than Marek's. Do you feed medicated feed? It's really important to get food into that little one. Take it to one side and try scrambled egg. Mix some crumbles into it and some plain bio yoghurt. Get the broody hen to encourage it.... she should make loud "come and get it, this is good" noises as soon as she tastes it. Without food and water it will certainly die, so tempt it with whatever it will eat. Sometimes making a wet paste with the crumbles and water is enough

 

[saltandpepper2]

Believe me I thought about giving it all up when one by one they all where dying. I was heart broken and cried over these birds. I just don't know if I can get tough. I lost pretty much my whole flock. I got 4 and one died couple weeks after I got them and got a replacement so out of 5 chickens I have lost 4! That is why I think my mortality rate on this flock of 6 is high. We have heavy woods in our back yard so there are tons of wild birds around, and our neighbors birds are always in our yard. (Our chickens got get threats from our garden and they try to come for some) but I know they are vaccinated but our other neighbors birds come over sometimes but I don't know if they are vaccinated so I can't really keep a closed flock since everyone comes over! 

I have a question. One of the baby chicks is not looking good. She just sits in a corner and doesn't move much. Wings are down and I don't see her (not the I am there 24/7 but I go to check on them a lot to clean up) going to the food and water. She tilts her head back like she is drinking but is not since she just is in a corner. She closes her eyes a lot. She is over 2 weeks old now. She just doesn't look alert. I looked at her poop and it looked more green then brown which I know is not good. Is she to young to have Marek's yet? I picked her up and she just was still and closed her eyes. I haven't heard her peep like the others. She doesn't follow my hen (mom) around either.

Most likely all the chicks have mareks. It is the most common for birds to first succumb to it at around 8-10 weeks, but they can at any time depending on how resistant they are. For that chick I would recommend giving her some electrolytes and rehydrating her. She might just be failing to thrive, and with a bit of tlc will make it through.

 

[spoiledgachix]

I did give them yogurt and eggs with crumbles yesterday but I will try to get her aside to see if she eats and I will try a dropper to see if she will take water. Yes I do feed them medicated crumbles.

 

[saltandpepper2]

I did give them yogurt and eggs with crumbles yesterday but I will try to get her aside to see if she eats and I will try a dropper to see if she will take water. Yes I do feed them medicated crumbles. 

Also, she might have cocci, so a treatment for that might be in order