Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[saltandpepper2]

Very very interesting.  What does the breeder do?  Let nature take its course and breed survivors?  For resistance?

Basically. He lost a lot at the beginning, now he only loses a few a year. From hearing talk of people losing their birds, and the symptoms, I have to assume that mareks is very prevalent where I am, BUT, it seems to be a fairly weak strain, so breeding for resistance is almost more feasible than with some people that have a strong strain.

 

[alibabba]

Basically. He lost a lot at the beginning, now he only loses a few a year. From hearing talk of people losing their birds, and the symptoms, I have to assume that mareks is very prevalent where I am, BUT, it seems to be a fairly weak strain, so breeding for resistance is almost more feasible than with some people that have a strong strain.

Well, I was gonna say, you have to be hard hearted to do it that way...but honesty it is what it is, isn't it?

If as in humans every chicken was vaccinated, the disease could be erradicated, eg. polio, smallpox.

But, there are too many chickens and reproduction is so rapid. Breeding for the resistance is a good thing.


If I buy a 2 year old hen and rooster from my area, that could work.

Sidenote: My EE's will outlive me I swear....nothing will get those girls, not Marek's or Cocci or MG or mites or lice...they got something going on for them. (ETA, they came from a mud/poop farm, they have free range of a huge grass yard at my place, spreadiing their germs everywhere....but so happy and good eggs.)

 

[saltandpepper2]

Well, I was gonna say, you have to be hard hearted to do it that way...but honesty it is what it is, isn't it?

If as in humans every chicken was vaccinated, the disease could be erradicated, eg. polio, smallpox.

But, there are too many chickens and reproduction is so rapid.  Breeding for the resistance is a good thing.


If I buy a 2 year old hen and rooster from my area, that could work.  

Sidenote: My EE's will outlive me I swear....nothing will get those girls, not Marek's or Cocci or MG or mites or lice...they got something going on for them. (ETA, they came from a mud/poop farm,  they have free range of a huge grass yard at my place, spreadiing their germs everywhere....but so happy and good eggs.)

Oh I know it's hard hearted, but honestly, I've come to the point that if A bird shows symptoms, I'm more apt to cull it then to try to make it recover. I have a hen right now that is showing symptoms of ovary cancer, trying to make a date to cull her... It's hard, but in my case the most practical thing to do. I've never had vaccinated chicks, and figured that since I have progress with my birds now, I will probably continue to breed for resistance. Haha, your EE sound like my marans! I've had most of my blue egg layers succumb to mareks... Never lost a marans!

 

[ochochicas]

No, I have not tested any more birds. If they start showing new symptoms/disease then I will send more in for necropsy. So far I've had leg/wing paralysis, tumors with wasting, and one that went blind. No need to test since I already know what has killed them.

If I get a sick one, I pretty much know now that they aren't going to make it. I would rather they are culled early on while they still have a good quality of life. Most of my birds end up dying from respiratory problems caused by extensive tumors. It seems like a really tough way to go. A couple of them have recovered (for 4 - 6 weeks) just to become suddenly very ill later. The second time they seem to go down hill VERY quickly and suffer quite a bit.

My little babies are 6 weeks old now. Their broody mom left them today so they are on their own. I hope they have built the immunity!

 

[jak2002003]

No, I have not tested any more birds. If they start showing new symptoms/disease then I will send more in for necropsy. So far I've had leg/wing paralysis, tumors with wasting, and one that went blind. No need to test since I already know what has killed them.

If I get a sick one, I pretty much know now that they aren't going to make it. I would rather they are culled early on while they still have a good quality of life. Most of my birds end up dying from respiratory problems caused by extensive tumors. It seems like a really tough way to go. A couple of them have recovered (for 4 - 6 weeks) just to become suddenly very ill later. The second time they seem to go down hill VERY quickly and suffer quite a bit.

My little babies are 6 weeks old now. Their broody mom left them today so they are on their own. I hope they have built the immunity!

The ones with leg paralysis.... why did they die... was is because they could not get to food and water? I have a rooster with leg paralysis.. but its been over one month and he is still a good weight and crowing etc. I keep thinking I will cull him when he gets worse.. but he seems to be doing really well.... what do you think will happen to him in the end?

 

[ochochicas]

The ones with leg paralysis.... why did they die... was is because they could not get to food and water? I have a rooster with leg paralysis.. but its been over one month and he is still a good weight and crowing etc. I keep thinking I will cull him when he gets worse.. but he seems to be doing really well.... what do you think will happen to him in the end?

In my experience, and I think a lot of others will agree, Marek's disease has many layers of illness and ways it affects the chickens. The paralysis and limping is just one sign you will see but it does not give the whole picture of what is going on inside the chicken.

My original Marek's hen was slightly lethargic and limping for 4 - 6 weeks before I brought her in the house. She was eating and her weight was fine. As the use of her legs continued to deteriorate over the next 2 months, she would still eat when I brought food to her. The problem was that tumors were taking over her internal organs. She had a mass in her pectoral (chest) muscle that was huge. I could easily palpate it when I held her. She had hepatitis and tumors all over her digestive organs. In the end she was unable to digest much food. Her little pullet friend started limping/hopping on one leg. She still got around quite well and was eating great, but I had her necropsied and she was also full of internal tumors. I believe her spleen and ovary and intestines were covered in tumors. It was just a matter of time before the tumors consumed all the nutrition she was eating. In my opinion, this will probably be what happens to your rooster in the end. I have had some roosters that died from Marek's. They seem to die rather quickly (in 1 - 2 days), whereas the pullets will slowly decline over several weeks.

More recently, my birds have come down with tumors that affect their heart and lungs. This is usually what takes the roosters. They will show breathing problems and dark or purple combs. I had one that had a seizure before dying, and a year old rooster that was totally normal one night and i found him dead in the coop the next day.

I won't go on with more details. When a bird gets sick at my house now, I will cull it within a week. I can't stand to see them deteriorate to the point where they are falling over or the other chickens start to pick on them. It is also so hard to treat a bird day in and day out since you get even more attached to them. Some of the birds I've had did respond well to treatment and recovered, but they all relapsed within 6 weeks and died anyway. Kettle Corn was one such case, but after she died I vowed not to let more birds suffer. I assure you no one loves and spoils their birds more than I do, but at the end of the road you have to put on your "farmer" hat and do what needs to be done.

Fortunately not everyone has a super virulent strain of Marek's like I do. I've heard of some birds living for more than 6 months and doing fine. I have also read studies about people using anti-virals to treat Marek's. That is a route you could explore if you have medications available to you.

 

[alibabba]

Study multiple vaccinations, eg boosting for superior immunity. Researchers used multiple strains. Interesting results with maternal antibodies...vaccination (good infection) can be inhibited by maternal antibodies on the initial vaccination, but 2nd vaccination counteracts this effect.

Also,(if I am reading this correctly) field strain challenge of normal type (not the super virulent types) are a good thing to keep the immune response active.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2643530/

"Statistically, revaccination provides better protection than single vaccination in the field (41)."

"...suggesting that maternal antibodies neutralize some primed vaccine viruses and that revaccination compensates for the virus loss caused by neutralization by providing an extra amount of viral antigens to stimulate or restimulate the host immune system so that the chickens develop stronger humoral immune responses."


Interesting reading if you like research studies...

 

[alibabba]

While I have the vaccine out for the 3 new broody chicks tomorrow....I might as well redo the 1st broody batch. It will have been around 12 days. Or....I could do nothing with the 2nd batch and see what happens.

Taking a stroll over to the breeding for Marek's resistance thread, I'll bug them for a while...

LOL

 

[seminolewind]

Jak, Ocho is so right about the many layers and affecting each bird differently. It's a personal decision about when to cull. To me it depends on quality of life. If they are starving, I would cull.

I think it's a good idea if you can do the 2nd vaccination. I think if they haven't been exposed to the real thing yet, it should do more stimulation.

 

[alibabba]

Jak, Ocho is so right about the many layers and affecting each bird differently. It's a personal decision about when to cull. To me it depends on quality of life. If they are starving, I would cull.

I think it's a good idea if you can do the 2nd vaccination. I think if they haven't been exposed to the real thing yet, it should do more stimulation.

My little bantam hen, even on her last day kept trying to get out of her little box, never stayed in the sling long, would fling herself everywhere. It was sad. she only had paralyis of legs. In the future, I will not go to the extreme. I will give them a week of meds in case it's something else, then if not improvement end it.