Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[saltandpepper2]

Proud Army Wife, I'm so sorry that you're going through this, it's never easy... however, as callous as it sounds, the first one is always the hardest, and then is get slowly easier. I bawled my eyes out the first bird I culled because of mareks, and slowly the tears have lessened with each bird I've put down.

 

[saltandpepper2]

So, The Cochin that was acting off... 2, 3 weeks later is still acting off, but managing on his own decently. we'll see if he makes it. I have another rooster that I'll be putting on meds. His legs seems to be extremely weak legged. Can't even eat standing up. walks a few paces, lies down, etc. Eating great and isn't getting picked on, but I'll be keeping a close eye on him. On the bright side, all birds that are getting sick are extra roosters... which makes me a little less emotionally involved if they end up being culled.

 

[lalaland]

Occhcias, can you say more about why you think the article doesn't have much credibility? The PBS thing doesn't say that all will die in 10 days, just that the worst variation does. I was freaked out by the rate of virus shedding .....

would really like to believe it has no credibility, just don't understand why.
thanks!

 

[seminolewind]

edited

 

[lalaland]

hmm. you can read the whole study here: http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1002198

the extravirulent strain of mareks virus came from a US vet or dr's lab...so maybe not something most of us are running into.


and although I don' t have the right background to really understand everything I was reading, it was fairly convincing.

makes me really really think about whether I want to try vaccination or go forward without.

 

[seminolewind]

La, we already knew that stuff. Remember , if you don't finish your antibiotics, you'll be making super bugs? That article didn't discover something new. It's just making this sound like a new find when just about anyone or thing can develop resistance. The resistant ones are the more virulent ones. Harder to kill. And viruses are tough because they can reinvent themselves frequently.

I could torture myself with any decision I make being the right one. What I try to remember is

You can only do the best you can do. There is only one vaccine available for us. So we are stuck using it or going without. Even hatchery vaccine, I had one chicken last year that was hatchery vaccinated and died from Marek's tumors ( state lab) at one year old..

If Marek's is a Herpes virus, chickens are lucky compared to people who have Herpes. Marek's behaves like HIV/AIDS, so exposed birds can remain in "HIV status" or continue on to AIDS /tumors. People that are HIV positive do not have a vaccine that prevents AIDS. They are all viruses that use the immune system as their "little factories" and more virulent is what you get when some virus resists a vaccine and then multiplies out virus that are more resistant. I don't think there are any ways to change that at present time.

I don't think vaccines become "leaky" . The virus outsmarts them. Anyone using the vaccine can create extravirulent virus.

 

[alibabba]

This is an amazing pool of info. PBS is a pretty reliable source. I don't know, Have they been untrustworthy in the past? They probably had to pull punches, I would think.. to even get this to air.


Chicken Pox, Shingles? Carrier and shedding...?

The Marek's vaccination is similar to the cowpox, smallpox relationship. What does that mean?

Feeling more convinced to let mother nature handle this...some will survive.

 

[seminolewind]

Quote:


I think this is more of a study than new valid information. It seems to blame every thing on the vaccine being "leaky". Meaning protecting the birds against tumors but the birds are still able to expose others and make them sick

The writer explains a lot about how the leaky vaccine is causing more virulent strains, but Marek's has been around since at least 1900 and up to the 70's Marek's affected chicken production and killed up to 70% of it. The vaccine saved the industry.

So how does the writer's theory hold up against pre vaccine Marek's? For 80 or so known years? It didn't burn itself out. It did kill more and more chickens.

Most chicken production starts with a batch of chicks that are vaccinated. They grow up and are culled for meat or the hens will all lay eggs together for a year and a half. Then those batches are culled. After culling all the chickens in that group, the warehouse is scrubbed down and disinfected. Then the next batch comes in. There is no mixing of batches. So I wonder how much damage the leaky vaccine really does when most vaccinated chickens are eaten or lay eggs in a big house and then get eaten. The vaccine was actually created for chickens who werent' going to live very long. And if batches are not having contact with eachother, how does he figure in the leaky vaccine theory vs. a really contagious really intelligent virus that has whipped our butts for over 100 years?

What really hurts is that we backyard chicken owners are at fault as well. We've had this revolution where people want chickens in the backyard for food or pet. They do get older than 2 years old. While the big chicken producer got Marek's under control, we backyard chicken owners did everything that was wrong. Chickens were kept longer. People brought chickens home from auctions, sales, etc mixing ages and having mixed batches. We didn't practice all in all out. We didn't disinfect between closed batches. A lot of the information backyard chicken owners got about Marek's was incorrect, or people were in denial or thought it would never be in their flocks. Vets told owners that they didn't have to worry about Marek's.

It would be great if we could all get our act together and vaccinate ALL birds so mostly ALL birds would be protected and people could swap and buy all they want without worry because they were ALL vaccinated. I know there are people that disagree with that. So we will just agree to disagree. I don't have all the answers or any answers. What I'd like is to go to a swap and bring home a few fuzzy chicks and not have to worry about someone having Marek's and killing everyone else.

 

[alibabba]

I think this is more of a study than new valid information. It seems to blame every thing on the vaccine being "leaky". Meaning protecting the birds against tumors but the birds are still able to expose others and make them sick

The writer explains a lot about how the leaky vaccine is causing more virulent strains, but Marek's has been around since at least 1900 and up to the 70's Marek's affected chicken production and killed up to 70% of it. The vaccine saved the industry.

So how does the writer's theory hold up against pre vaccine Marek's? For 80 or so known years? It didn't burn itself out. It did kill more and more chickens.

Most chicken production starts with a batch of chicks that are vaccinated. They grow up and are culled for meat or the hens will all lay eggs together for a year and a half. Then those batches are culled. After culling all the chickens in that group, the warehouse is scrubbed down and disinfected. Then the next batch comes in. There is no mixing of batches. So I wonder how much damage the leaky vaccine really does when most vaccinated chickens are eaten or lay eggs in a big house and then get eaten. The vaccine was actually created for chickens who werent' going to live very long. And if batches are not having contact with eachother, how does he figure in the leaky vaccine theory vs. a really contagious really intelligent virus that has whipped our butts for over 100 years?

What really hurts is that we backyard chicken owners are at fault as well. We've had this revolution where people want chickens in the backyard for food or pet. They do get older than 2 years old. While the big chicken producer got Marek's under control, we backyard chicken owners did everything that was wrong. Chickens were kept longer. People brought chickens home from auctions, sales, etc mixing ages and having mixed batches. We didn't practice all in all out. We didn't disinfect between closed batches. A lot of the information backyard chicken owners got about Marek's was incorrect, or people were in denial or thought it would never be in their flocks. Vets told owners that they didn't have to worry about Marek's.

It would be great if we could all get our act together and vaccinate ALL birds so mostly ALL birds would be protected and people could swap and buy all they want without worry because they were ALL vaccinated. I know there are people that disagree with that. So we will just agree to disagree. I don't have all the answers or any answers. What I'd like is to go to a swap and bring home a few fuzzy chicks and not have to worry about someone having Marek's and killing everhoyone else.

That is what basically eradicated Polio, Smallpox etc., large scale vaccination. There must be a thread of similarity. This virus was not around since the first "domesticated chicken" or was it, but not as deadly in the sense of communicability or in the pathological sense?

Mary Magdalene was not scrubbing chicken coops with Oxine. and there are probably millions of third world people keeping chickens.

 

[seminolewind]

Quote:
Chicken pox and shingles- well now, that does sound like a leaky vaccine and not a perfect vaccine. PBS is known to be reliable, but this is a study now going on and what theories are looked into. Furthermore, all medicines allow the strongest to survive (virulence). Not just Marek's. It's not a new theory.

I just do the best I can with what I have.

If not wanting to use vaccines, one could expose chicks to a very tiny amount of virus, small enough so that their immune system can kick butt before the virus kicks butt. I have a rooster that was exposed as a chick, unvaccinated, went to live at a stable for a few months and come back and now he's 2 years old +. It's all about building antibodies faster than the virus multiplies, and that can't be done without exposure, either vaccine or face to face (beak to beak).