I might have to get some Turkeys! lol. Haven't lost any birds to disease since the sebright, only one to a dog. :/. Some of them have shown symptoms, but never succumb, and as has been stated, mareks can look like so many other ailments!
Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock
- Thread starter Haunted55
- Start date
I have been reading through the threads pertaining to Marek's. Do any of you raise quail or any other birds? Have you had any Mareks issues with other types of birds in your flock as well?
Quote:
Well, you should always quarantine new birds before adding to an existing flock or in your case, kept the two flocks separate, for three weeks to a month. If you have done that, good, but if you haven't, you don't need to panic. You could either cull the sick ones, or try to treat them with Vitamins or Hypericum Perforatum. The rooster might have something different altogether than the sick hens. If they were mine, I would put the whole flock on premium poultry vitamins (like Rooster Booster B &K) keep the sick hens separate from the flock as you either treat them or cull them, and watch the rooster to see if his problems worsen.
Well, you should always quarantine new birds before adding to an existing flock or in your case, kept the two flocks separate, for three weeks to a month. If you have done that, good, but if you haven't, you don't need to panic. You could either cull the sick ones, or try to treat them with Vitamins or Hypericum Perforatum. The rooster might have something different altogether than the sick hens. If they were mine, I would put the whole flock on premium poultry vitamins (like Rooster Booster B &K) keep the sick hens separate from the flock as you either treat them or cull them, and watch the rooster to see if his problems worsen.
I have 8 bobwhite quail that came in August - only because the people that got them as chicks in the spring were going to release them. They are native to MN in the southern parts but don't survive in the northern parts where I live because snow cover is too much for them. So I knew their survival wasn't likely if they were set free.
They have been definitely exposed to mareks (mareks in my flock confirmed by necropsy) as they inahbit a run and coop that was used by part of my flock and their run adjoins the chicken run. So far, all quail are happy and healthy as heck. They are about 9 or 10 months old.
The mareks variant in my flock is relatively mild.
That is some hopeful information. Thank you!
I have read through most of this thread and I think I have a bird with Mareks. We just bought a house and inherited their 12 laying hens and one rooster. The rooster limps and his right foot is curled. They joked with us that he was handicap we figured he suffered an injury. Now we have found another of their hens are lame and another just spent the night in my mud room because she has left leg paralysis and left eye is closed. Unfortunately we brought our six healthy hens with us. What should I do now? I see different opinions. I just want eggs and no chickens in my house because they are suffering
Even if you had quarantined/separated the birds, whatever they have is already on the property and there is no way you cold avoid having your hens exposed to it. If your hens are older than 12 months, they probably already have immunity to Marek's and you don't need to worry about it.
Did you ask the former owner how long the rooster has been limping? If it has been that way for a long time it might not be Marek's. If it is a recent problem, it will probably become worse until he can no longer get around well enough to feed himself. I have had one hen that was exposed to Marek's, developed leg and wing weakness, and then recovered. It is something you could ride out to see what happens.
As for the birds in the house, you can cull them now and perhaps send them in for necropsy. Or you can put them back in the coop and let nature do its thing. As long as they are able to eat and drink they may have a chance for recovery.
That is true that they can recover, and that they will develop immunity. The rooster might have hatched with curled toes and they just never bothered to help him straighten them out.
Hi everyone. I'm looking for any input from people who have experience of really agressive forms of Marek's - and I mean REALLY aggressive and rapid. (Sorry in advance for the long post - trying to give you all as much info as possible!)
To explain - I've been keeping chickens for almost 5 years, with various associated chook illnesses - runny noses, bumblefoot, twisted ankles, worms, lice, mites etc, but apart from two production hens that I lost to internal laying issues (a rant about breeding for maximum egg production that I will keep for another forum) I have never had a 'serious' problem. I have read a lot about Marek's, but never seen signs or symptoms in my flock, that included birds from 4 months to 3 years old. I say included, because in the space of 10 days I lost two birds, both to what the vet thinks is probably Marek's.
The problem is that my birds have never shown any signs or symptoms at all. I have a mixed flock - three production reds, three 'crossed' birds (Copper Marans, Cuckoo Marans and Limousine crosses), two pure Bielfelders and four pure Black Copper Marans Suddenly one of my 7 month old Marans roosters (the lowest-ranking of the 3 roos in my flock) went from being totally normal to being unable to walk properly within 24 hours. He was ok the previous afternoon, then the following morning he was making odd movements with his head, then stumbling when walking, then finally unable to walk at all. My husband dispatched him with an axe in the afternoon, and I took him to the vet for a necropsy. Since the vets round here have limited avian knowledge she wasn't convinced that Marek's was to blame, and said the fact he had signs of worms and cocci had probably caused dehydration and nerve problems.
I treated for cocci and worms, and hoped that everything would be ok. A week after finishing the treatment I noticed that my youngest (and favourite - isn't it always the way) Marans pullet, who had been battling respiratory and eye infections for three weeks, stumbled when I put her down on the ground. That night she stumbled when walking towards me in the coop. The following day she was unsteady on her feet in the morning. When I got home from work at lunch she was walking very carefully, and kept treading on her own feet, unable to remove one foot from under the other when it got trapped. I brought her in and kept an eye on her for an hour or two - things didn't look good. I took her to the vet - by the time we got there she didn't really want to walk, and one leg was splaying backwards (typical Marek's symptom). We were in the surgery for half an hour - at the start she was sitting upright on the table - alert and interested. After 30 minutes she was leaning to one side - unable to pull herself upright. I reluctantly agreed with the vet that there was no option - we had to euthanise her. The vet did a necropsy and found lesions on the sciatic nerve - again a classic Marek's symptom. It seems quite possible that all the other illnesses she had been battling for the previous weeks had actually been symptoms of a depressed immune system caused by Marek's.
My concern is that now I have an older bird (two and a half year old Limousine cross) that has started to limp. I have checked her feet, and she does have a small bumble on one foot, but what worries me is that the foot that she won't put weight on is the other foot! The 'bumble' foot doesn't seem to be bothering her at all - she prefers to keep her weight on it. I was hoping that it was just a 'sprained ankle' from jumping down onto the hard coop floor, but it's been over a week and it seems to be the same or worse - no improvement at all. I have started tri-cide neo footbaths in case it is a 'simple' case of bumblefoot but I am so worried about the fact that I now have Marek's in my flock and that this could be another affected bird.
My question (finally getting to the point, sorry for the extended explanations) is to ask if anyone else has experienced a mix of birds affected sudden Marek's deaths and also slow onset symptoms, or if it tends to be either one or the other within a flock. I am so paranoid about my birds' health at the moment that I don't know if I am seeing Marek's where I shouldn't be:
Thank you in advance,
Katy
To explain - I've been keeping chickens for almost 5 years, with various associated chook illnesses - runny noses, bumblefoot, twisted ankles, worms, lice, mites etc, but apart from two production hens that I lost to internal laying issues (a rant about breeding for maximum egg production that I will keep for another forum) I have never had a 'serious' problem. I have read a lot about Marek's, but never seen signs or symptoms in my flock, that included birds from 4 months to 3 years old. I say included, because in the space of 10 days I lost two birds, both to what the vet thinks is probably Marek's.
The problem is that my birds have never shown any signs or symptoms at all. I have a mixed flock - three production reds, three 'crossed' birds (Copper Marans, Cuckoo Marans and Limousine crosses), two pure Bielfelders and four pure Black Copper Marans Suddenly one of my 7 month old Marans roosters (the lowest-ranking of the 3 roos in my flock) went from being totally normal to being unable to walk properly within 24 hours. He was ok the previous afternoon, then the following morning he was making odd movements with his head, then stumbling when walking, then finally unable to walk at all. My husband dispatched him with an axe in the afternoon, and I took him to the vet for a necropsy. Since the vets round here have limited avian knowledge she wasn't convinced that Marek's was to blame, and said the fact he had signs of worms and cocci had probably caused dehydration and nerve problems.
I treated for cocci and worms, and hoped that everything would be ok. A week after finishing the treatment I noticed that my youngest (and favourite - isn't it always the way) Marans pullet, who had been battling respiratory and eye infections for three weeks, stumbled when I put her down on the ground. That night she stumbled when walking towards me in the coop. The following day she was unsteady on her feet in the morning. When I got home from work at lunch she was walking very carefully, and kept treading on her own feet, unable to remove one foot from under the other when it got trapped. I brought her in and kept an eye on her for an hour or two - things didn't look good. I took her to the vet - by the time we got there she didn't really want to walk, and one leg was splaying backwards (typical Marek's symptom). We were in the surgery for half an hour - at the start she was sitting upright on the table - alert and interested. After 30 minutes she was leaning to one side - unable to pull herself upright. I reluctantly agreed with the vet that there was no option - we had to euthanise her. The vet did a necropsy and found lesions on the sciatic nerve - again a classic Marek's symptom. It seems quite possible that all the other illnesses she had been battling for the previous weeks had actually been symptoms of a depressed immune system caused by Marek's.
My concern is that now I have an older bird (two and a half year old Limousine cross) that has started to limp. I have checked her feet, and she does have a small bumble on one foot, but what worries me is that the foot that she won't put weight on is the other foot! The 'bumble' foot doesn't seem to be bothering her at all - she prefers to keep her weight on it. I was hoping that it was just a 'sprained ankle' from jumping down onto the hard coop floor, but it's been over a week and it seems to be the same or worse - no improvement at all. I have started tri-cide neo footbaths in case it is a 'simple' case of bumblefoot but I am so worried about the fact that I now have Marek's in my flock and that this could be another affected bird.
My question (finally getting to the point, sorry for the extended explanations) is to ask if anyone else has experienced a mix of birds affected sudden Marek's deaths and also slow onset symptoms, or if it tends to be either one or the other within a flock. I am so paranoid about my birds' health at the moment that I don't know if I am seeing Marek's where I shouldn't be:
Thank you in advance,
Katy
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Hi
I believe that you are right in thinking that the preceding health problems (respiratory, cocci and maybe even worms) were as a result of a compromised immune system and it does sound like Marek's but I'm not sure what makes you think it's a particularly aggressive strain. I have what I consider to be a mild strain and when it first broke out I had 3 develop lameness overnight within a week of each other. One deteriorated over the following week and needed to be culled and the other two recovered within a few days, from having been floundering on the ground unable to get up, to walking with barely a limp and eventually being unable to tell there had been a problem. Both had secondary and more serious attacks.... one a few months later that I managed to nurse her through and the other, a year later, that unfortunately proved fatal, but quality of life in between times was very good and the pullet went on to lay eggs and free range with the flock. Another one had the same problem as your pullet, in that she was standing on and tripping over her own foot. She learned to curl the foot and pull it up out of the way and hop everywhere (it took several weeks of tripping and me trying to make a brace and support her before she found her own solution. She was a very petite bird (another indication of Marek's) but it proved helpful since her one good leg wasn't taking too much weight. She was amazingly agile despite her disability and she also free ranged with the flock and laid eggs and got up onto the highest roost at night,, but sadly was victim to a fox last summer.
This summer I had 28 chicks broody reared within the same flock... I don't isolate Marek's birds since my flock have all been exposed.... and only one showed definite signs of it but she has recovered although she is typically petite. I have another cockerel from the same hatch that is not thriving and has had digestive problems which my gut instinct tells me is Marek's related. Interestingly that broody hatched her chicks outside the hen house, so those chicks were not exposed to Marek's from day one.
I offer supportive care to my Marek's birds and only cull when they are unable/unwilling to eat and drink. It is hard to watch them floundering but I've come to the conclusion that they are not in pain but merely frustrated that their limbs don't work and I usually put them in the "infirmary" (an old sideboard in the hen house with mesh across the front instead of doors, so that they remain in contact with the flock) until they figure it out. One pullet had 3-4 months of supportive care in there last winter when she was pretty much nest bound, but made a miraculous recovery with a bit of spring sunshine and grass. If they are bright eyed and keen to eat, they get a chance to fight it.
I know it is heart breaking when it first hits your flock and losing even one or two birds is a shock, but there are people on here that lose almost their whole flock to it and I consider those to be the ones with the aggressive strain. When my flock first developed it and I started reading up about it, the information was all doom and gloom but after that initial outbreak things have settled down and my experience is that it's not anywhere near as bad as the stuff I read.
Good luck with the rest of your flock and hopefully your experience will be like mine and the problem will settle down after this initial outbreak.
Best wishes
Barbara
PS. A critical factor in supporting them is keeping them happy and stress free. That's why I don't isolate them and I won't tube feed (not got anything against tube feeding but not for Marek's birds) Having chicken company and competition for food really helps them battle through it. I feed my sick birds whatever they will eat and particularly good treats like scrambled egg, yoghurt and meat or fish. Getting them out in the sunshine onto grass made a huge difference... I put them in a cage so that they are safe until they are more mobile.
I believe that you are right in thinking that the preceding health problems (respiratory, cocci and maybe even worms) were as a result of a compromised immune system and it does sound like Marek's but I'm not sure what makes you think it's a particularly aggressive strain. I have what I consider to be a mild strain and when it first broke out I had 3 develop lameness overnight within a week of each other. One deteriorated over the following week and needed to be culled and the other two recovered within a few days, from having been floundering on the ground unable to get up, to walking with barely a limp and eventually being unable to tell there had been a problem. Both had secondary and more serious attacks.... one a few months later that I managed to nurse her through and the other, a year later, that unfortunately proved fatal, but quality of life in between times was very good and the pullet went on to lay eggs and free range with the flock. Another one had the same problem as your pullet, in that she was standing on and tripping over her own foot. She learned to curl the foot and pull it up out of the way and hop everywhere (it took several weeks of tripping and me trying to make a brace and support her before she found her own solution. She was a very petite bird (another indication of Marek's) but it proved helpful since her one good leg wasn't taking too much weight. She was amazingly agile despite her disability and she also free ranged with the flock and laid eggs and got up onto the highest roost at night,, but sadly was victim to a fox last summer.
This summer I had 28 chicks broody reared within the same flock... I don't isolate Marek's birds since my flock have all been exposed.... and only one showed definite signs of it but she has recovered although she is typically petite. I have another cockerel from the same hatch that is not thriving and has had digestive problems which my gut instinct tells me is Marek's related. Interestingly that broody hatched her chicks outside the hen house, so those chicks were not exposed to Marek's from day one.
I offer supportive care to my Marek's birds and only cull when they are unable/unwilling to eat and drink. It is hard to watch them floundering but I've come to the conclusion that they are not in pain but merely frustrated that their limbs don't work and I usually put them in the "infirmary" (an old sideboard in the hen house with mesh across the front instead of doors, so that they remain in contact with the flock) until they figure it out. One pullet had 3-4 months of supportive care in there last winter when she was pretty much nest bound, but made a miraculous recovery with a bit of spring sunshine and grass. If they are bright eyed and keen to eat, they get a chance to fight it.
I know it is heart breaking when it first hits your flock and losing even one or two birds is a shock, but there are people on here that lose almost their whole flock to it and I consider those to be the ones with the aggressive strain. When my flock first developed it and I started reading up about it, the information was all doom and gloom but after that initial outbreak things have settled down and my experience is that it's not anywhere near as bad as the stuff I read.
Good luck with the rest of your flock and hopefully your experience will be like mine and the problem will settle down after this initial outbreak.
Best wishes
Barbara
PS. A critical factor in supporting them is keeping them happy and stress free. That's why I don't isolate them and I won't tube feed (not got anything against tube feeding but not for Marek's birds) Having chicken company and competition for food really helps them battle through it. I feed my sick birds whatever they will eat and particularly good treats like scrambled egg, yoghurt and meat or fish. Getting them out in the sunshine onto grass made a huge difference... I put them in a cage so that they are safe until they are more mobile.
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Thank you for that reply Barbara - logical, calm, reassuring - just what I needed!
The reason I described it as an agressive strain is that I have read so much about birds starting to limp or have vision problems etc, then gradually (over the course of a week or so) getting worse. This wasn't the case with either of my two birds, and since I have no previous experience of Marek's it was really quite frightening.
My roo (Mickey) was completely normal one night, and by the following lunchtime he was completely unable to control his head movements, couldn't walk two steps without falling in a heap, and could barely even stand up again when he fell over. Although my pullet (Little Cheep) had previous health issues she had no neurological symptoms at all, yet went from being a bit unsteady on her feet to being unable to sit upright in less than 3 hours. Just before the vet euthanised her she was also starting to have problems breathing. The vet necropsied her and found lesions all along the sciatic nerve, confirming her suspicion of Marek's. (I didn't pay the 100€ + for further tests to have a confirmed diagnosis, as it won't make any difference to what happens to my birds in the long run, and I would rather keep the cash to use on their care.)
Your description of your "infirmary" has got me thinking. At the moment I am uber-busy at work, and have no facilities to keep sick birds safe and separated from the flock whilst I am out all day. However, I have an unused space under a table in my coop that would be the ideal size to keep a bird contained, with space to move around and still allow them contact with the flock. It will just take a bit of chicken wire on the sides and a frame on the front to make a perfect space. The fact that you have been able to keep birds like this to allow them time to heal or to confirm that culling is necessary gives me hope. I know that some members - Nambroth being a shining example with her rooster Bubbles - have helped their birds to survive with extreme TLC and by having them as house chickens for a few months, but in my situation that just wouldn't be possible. I wasn't happy about having to euthanise either of my birds (especially Little Cheep as she was my favourite of the flock!) but I really had no choice, as I had nowhere else to keep them and care for them.
I also have to say that I agree with your approach to tube-feeding and quality of life. Caring for our birds and doing everything we can for them is what we are all about, but sometimes you just have to know when a battle is lost and it's time to let go.
Thank you for sharing your story and making me feel a little less depressed about the fact that I and my flock are now unwilling members of the Marek's club. People like you are the reason that I love BYC!
The reason I described it as an agressive strain is that I have read so much about birds starting to limp or have vision problems etc, then gradually (over the course of a week or so) getting worse. This wasn't the case with either of my two birds, and since I have no previous experience of Marek's it was really quite frightening.
My roo (Mickey) was completely normal one night, and by the following lunchtime he was completely unable to control his head movements, couldn't walk two steps without falling in a heap, and could barely even stand up again when he fell over. Although my pullet (Little Cheep) had previous health issues she had no neurological symptoms at all, yet went from being a bit unsteady on her feet to being unable to sit upright in less than 3 hours. Just before the vet euthanised her she was also starting to have problems breathing. The vet necropsied her and found lesions all along the sciatic nerve, confirming her suspicion of Marek's. (I didn't pay the 100€ + for further tests to have a confirmed diagnosis, as it won't make any difference to what happens to my birds in the long run, and I would rather keep the cash to use on their care.)
Your description of your "infirmary" has got me thinking. At the moment I am uber-busy at work, and have no facilities to keep sick birds safe and separated from the flock whilst I am out all day. However, I have an unused space under a table in my coop that would be the ideal size to keep a bird contained, with space to move around and still allow them contact with the flock. It will just take a bit of chicken wire on the sides and a frame on the front to make a perfect space. The fact that you have been able to keep birds like this to allow them time to heal or to confirm that culling is necessary gives me hope. I know that some members - Nambroth being a shining example with her rooster Bubbles - have helped their birds to survive with extreme TLC and by having them as house chickens for a few months, but in my situation that just wouldn't be possible. I wasn't happy about having to euthanise either of my birds (especially Little Cheep as she was my favourite of the flock!) but I really had no choice, as I had nowhere else to keep them and care for them.
I also have to say that I agree with your approach to tube-feeding and quality of life. Caring for our birds and doing everything we can for them is what we are all about, but sometimes you just have to know when a battle is lost and it's time to let go.
Thank you for sharing your story and making me feel a little less depressed about the fact that I and my flock are now unwilling members of the Marek's club. People like you are the reason that I love BYC!
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