Not bumble foot...???

[Cockeldoodledoo]

Hi,

I have a 3 year old speckled Meran cockerel called lil Chris (Named Chris after being called Christmas dinner because of his red and green leg rings

) He is such a lovely cockerel and I've tried so hard to get his foot better but dont know what to do now. So here are the details...

About 6 weeks ago his foot drastically swelled. With no sign of a scab i took him to the vets to have it lanced. I've sucessfully treated bumble foot in the past but that cockerel had a large scab on the base of his foot as bumble foot patients usually do) So it was lanced, aload of nastyness came out and she supplied me with 2 weeks worth of baytril and metacam. I drained, polticed and bandage the foot every day and it seemed to improve to the point of barely any swelling.

I went away for a few days and when i returned it had swollen again. Managed to get more baytril and metacam without seeing the vet and continued bandaging etc. Swelling didnt go down so we returned to the vets once again and she lanced it again but it mainly bled. She gave me some tablets for him (names of which I shall post when i get home) After a few days on these pills lots of cheesy puss came out (sorry guys!

) and once again I thought it was all getting sorted. However it has now swollen up AGAIN!

Tried lancing it last night but just got a small amount of blood and no puss at all, in comparison to it bleeding quite alot when done before. I've been reading about swollen chicken feet and have seen tumours mentioned?

There is a swelling quite high on his foot, in line with the spur on the side, as well as the sole of his foot and between two of his toes. I will try and post pics later.


Thanks in advance
Chloe.x

 

[dawg53]

I'm sorry to say that the infection mustve gotten to the bone. Once it gets there, it's tough to treat and sometimes the infection spreads throughout their system. Death is inevitable. I recommend you try penicillin injections to try and stop it. There are threads that go back a couple of years that explains how to do this. Sorry, I didnt bookmark or write them down to give you a link. Good luck.

 

[Cockeldoodledoo]

Thanks for your reply

I've read about penecillin injection but my vet is being pretty usless

not sure she would let me have it as last time i took him in she was pretty much writing him off

The tablets she put him on were Clavseptin Pal and Metronidazole.

I couldn't get pics to load on here so i've put them on Flickr, if people would be kind enough to take a quick peep and let me know if they have any thoughts on his big ol' swollen foot. http://www.flickr.com/photos/63359282@N02/5764155283/in/photostream

He seems very well in himself and is hobbleing around fine but like 'dawg53' said, i'm getting worried about it rapidly developing into something more serious

Thanks again

Chloe.x

 

[dawg53]

I saw the photos. If it wernt for the redness in his foot, I would tell you not to worry about it. However, I agree there is possible infection because of the redness. Claseptin has amoxcillin in it, a form of penicillin which should help clear it up. The metronidazole is used to clear up blackhead, canker in chickens as well as other types of bacteria and protozoas. It should help as well.
Here is the link regarding penicillin injections. You can purchase it at any feed store as well as the syringe and type of needle that is used. The link explains how to do the injection et..., as I have never done it. Good luck.
Go to post #6, scroll down to "Using Penicillin G Procaine for Poultry."
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=2734798

 

[stargazingmommy]

Quote:
I read that thread and the use of Pen G/procaine and am seriously curious...Why is it ok to use injectible procaine, but it's not ok to use a topical caine ending antibiotic ointment. (see it frequently said do not use any neosporin with caine stuff in it because it's toxic). if its toxic topically its likely to be toxic injected or ingested.

 

[Judy]

Dawg 53 asked me to comment on "caine" drugs, and I'm glad to.

I have posted a number of times about not using "caine" drugs. These are a group of topical anesthetics sometimes added to things like antibiotic ointments or sunburn treatments (solarcaine, if they still sell it). Examples are lidocaine, xylocaine, novocaine, cetacaine, benzocaine -- there are more. It is available over the counter in different medications. There is another antibiotic ointment that has it, and it is in OraGel (spelling?) for tooth pain.

The pain killer in Neosporin, by the way, is not in the group of what I am calling "caine" drugs, either. As I recall, it's a distant relative of morphine.

Here is a link to the origin of the warning against using "caine" drugs on chickens: https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=133860

I once Googled this and discovered that the situation is that chickens are highly sensitive to this group of drugs and can be overdosed, causing death, readily. It's not a poison type situation, it's a situation where a there is a fine line between effective dose and lethal dose. Procaine penicillin is an antibiotic and I've read of its use in chickens on here a good number of times. However, you are correct that the "procaine" in the name does indeed indicate that one of these "caine" drugs is in procaine penicillin. It is there to reduce the discomfort of the injection. Since procaine penicillin is commonly used in chickens, I have to assume that the dose of procaine is small enough to be safe for them.

I'm a retired people nurse, certainly not a vet, and for the most part what I'm saying here comes from BYC and Google (although we commonly used caine drugs on people.)

 

[tellynpeep]

Please be aware that if you've used baytril in this (or any other) chicken it can NEVER enter the human food chain. Your vet should be aware of this. It is currently illegal to use baytril or any fluoroquinolones in food producing animals in the US.
That goes for layers too.

 

[stargazingmommy]

Quote:
Thank you for the response ddawn, I really was mostly curious. I know not to use the topical pain relievers on cats and dogs because of the risk of ingesting it, which can lead to numbing of the GI tract and respiratory system if aspirated. (also a nurse, so curious about all this)

 

[Cockeldoodledoo]

Thanks for everyones info and thoughts.

Im sure my vet only said that he wasnt suitable for human consumption while he was taking the baytril, but anyway this certainly is not an issue! He is very much at pet and i want to try my best to get him well again. I'm a veggie anyway

haha.

Just poulticed/bandaged his foot and the swelling looks like its gone down a bit. Going to see how it is after the bank holidays over.

 

[tellynpeep]

Your vet is wrong on this issue. The feds are serious about the Baytril in food producing animals. The withdrawal period is.... forever. Please educate your vet. They can call the FDA if they don't believe you.