Not getting enough protein??

[livin-green]

Okay, so here is what I'm planning to do. I went to PetSmart for dog food, and checked for any other kind of food that was high in protein. There is such controversy over cat food that I'm not crazy about giving that to them. Besides, I had been throwing a handful or two into the run once or twice a week, and it doesn't appear to be working. I really don't want to do more than that. So....

At PetSmart, I found a ferret food that is 32% protein. It's a higher end ferret food (Nutriphase brand) that I found on clearance, so I bought several bags. I scanned over the ingredients, and it appears to be a pretty high quality. No "by-product"--only meal which isn't a whole lot better, but still sounds better than by-product to me.

Does anyone think that this will be a problem? It's pretty similar to cat food, but with more natural ingredients than most cat foods. I'd be happy to list the ingredients if anyone thinks it is necessary.

 

[livin-green]

Oh, I forgot to mention. This ferret food list fish meal as the 2nd ingredient.

And I did also pick up some crickets and mealworms for them, but those are getting expensive! I usually only do those as a treat--not part of their regular diet.

 

[warhorse]

Quote:
#1 What are the controversies with cat food?

#2 What is the problem with by-product or meal? My dogs eat cat chit, and if that's not a by-product, I don't know what is, but they are quite happy eating it. Chickens also eat bugs, rocks, weeds, etc. A few middlings swept up on a production floor really isn't all that bad.

(Do I need to have a flame-suit handy?)

 

[livin-green]

Quote:
#1 Actually, I've read several different things about the cat food, and some say it's good--other say it's bad...honestly, I don't know for sure. But, my take on it is that if it's not pretty much 100%, then I don't want to go that route until a more unified opinion is reached.

#2 Well, I 'm trying to stay as organic as possible, and I "advertise" my eggs as being hormone and antibiotic free. So, if I use feed with animal by-product crap in it, then it will indirectly have hormones in it. Yes, my chickens may even eat their own poop, but at least I know what's in that poop!

Seriously, my chickens don't have access to the kind of "waste" that is used to make up middlings, so why would I want to give it to them in their feed?

Now, my questions: What's a flame-suit? And why do you need one?
Also, you do know it is dangerous for your dog to eat cat chit, right?.....it gives them chitty breath....

 

[DarkWolf]

Quote:
This thread peaked my interest so I thought I'd dig around.. These links may help you out.


[best] http://www.wormman.com/mealworm_breeding.cfm

http://www.nyworms.com/mealworms.htm

http://www.wild-bird-watching.com/mealworms.html

 

[livin-green]

Quote:
This thread peaked my interest so I thought I'd dig around.. These links may help you out.


[best] http://www.wormman.com/mealworm_breeding.cfm

http://www.nyworms.com/mealworms.htm

http://www.wild-bird-watching.com/mealworms.html

Thanks for the links. I had actually started a mealworm bin last year because we also feed them to our lizard and box turtle, but I was not really having much luck with it. It's off in a back room where I don't mess with it much any more, and I decided to go check it. WOA! I'm glad I did! I've now got mealworms coming out my ears! Hurray! Thanks for posting! I guess it just takes a while for the "colony" (or whatever you call it) to get good and established.

 

[SandraChick]

Quote:
you suggested it might be protein, but you should also look at other possible reasons- especially if they have refeathered in all areas except for their backs. You also didn't mention if they are laying eggs again or not-- if they are, then I doubt highly that it's the protein. The first thing that comes to mind is ...Do you have a rooster? the second thing is have you checked for feather mites? Third, have you ever wormed your chickens?

A rooster mounting the chickens can can break the feathers, especially if your roo to chicken ration is too high. Secondarily, with feather mites, the roo mounting actually breaks the feathers as they become somewhat brittle. Part of the problem thereafter, is that feathers will get replaced immediately if they are pulled out, but not if they are broken. Having internal parasites can also affect what the chickens actually get from their feed...so you might be feeding them just fine, but a high worm load, would really make it that they weren't fed well at all! Don't forget that too much protein can also be bad. It can effect the liver and the kidneys. This is a slower process, and may not be noticeable right away- so be careful.

Regarding the cat food issue- I consider it fine for short term, immediate need. What is the worst about cat food is that it has a higher amount of selenium---this is fine for mammals, but birds are particularly sensitive to selenium. They need a tiny amount, but if they get too much you can have problems-especially with chicks. This is why using feeds for other animals can be risky---what is good and/or ok for one animal, can be bad for another.

I give black oil sunflower seeds (whole with the shell). It has a sulfur based protein in it that is not very prevalent in the environment, but very necessary for feather growth...a typical symptom for a lack of this protein is feather eating.

Good luck.
Sandra

 

[livin-green]

Thanks for taking time to give me so much info!

I have a flock of 14 hens only--no rooster. They slacked off with egg laying back in Nov when the time changed giving us shorter days. We didn't have a light in the coop for a couple of weeks, but laying picked right back up when we added a florescent shop light. Maybe this goofed up their molt?? They didn't really start their molt until Jan which I thought was late. This would be their first molt, by the way--they are 1 year old this month.

Anyway, I am planning to order some DE, but I'm not using it yet. The feathers don't seem to be broken off--just missing. Besides feather loss, what else indicates mites? I haven't "wormed" with medication, but they did get several "doses" of raw pumpkin seeds as late as the end of Nov, and I haven't seen any worms in their poop (of course, I haven't been closely examining it either).

I have noticed some feather eating, which makes me lean towards the protein deficiency. I've increased the protein with mealworms and crickets; plus, a cup of the ferret food I found that is high in protein. It has "sodium selenite" in it. Do you think that is the selenium that you were mentioning? It is the very last thing listed on the ingredients.

I searched on BYC for info. on BOSS which I was avoiding because of the Omega-6 issue. I'm feeding flax to boost Omega-3, so I didn't want to turn around and off-set that by feeding the BOSS. However, I think they need feathers on their behinds, so I guess I'll pick up some BOSS to feed at least until they get their feathers back!

 

[basicliving]

Observing them eat feathers, and feathers missing on their "behinds" really sounds a lot like it could be feather picking/plucking. Protein is said to help - but your may have a bigger issue than molting.

 

[livin-green]

Great.

Granted I don't stand around watching them all day, but when I am out there, I don't notice that much feather eating....just ocassionally. Hopefully, if I boost the protein then we'll solve this issue. How long does it usually take for them to feather out if they have the proper amount of protein?