OEGB flock/coop having issues

[TwistedTayy]

I have a trio of 3 OEGB in their own coop. 2 out of the three birds have been having issues (the two are from the same breeder). Coop is deep bedded (modified deep litter) with DE in it. I know and sort of agree with peoples aversion to DE but their run is on wood chips and although it’s covered, they don’t like to dust bathe in it and prefer the pine shavings in their coop so I put DE in it until I get their pens built in spring.

First thing is I had them quarantined after I got them for 7 days without incident. I would have done it longer but my SO and I were leaving for Xmas and I didn’t want to complicate things for the house sitter so we moved the quarantine coop from the quarantine spot to the poultry yard. The only thing I noticed during quarantine was that they weren’t eating the food… I feed Kalmbach All flock pellets (I have ducks geese and chickens). I read that as OEGB they should be on game bird but the only thing I could find was starter so I got that and mixed it with oats. I then ordered some GB layer which was delivered while I was away (and they we put on the day I got back). Layer would not be my first choice because it’s a pullet, a hen and a rooster but that was my only choice.

SO, when I got back I notice that the hen had some pretty bad pasty butt. I was surprised by this but after some quick cursory research (I am usually the extensive research type, so not proud of this) decided that the cause was likely from being on the starter > high protein > diarrhea > pasty butt. My SO and I cleaned up her vent carefully over the course of two days with warm water (it was very cold so I didn’t want her to be wet for too long). Her mate, Tito, also had pasty butt but not very bad.. he only took one cleaning. Both vents are looking VERY improved aside from the missing feathers. The pullet had no issues which is why I leaned towards the cause being the starter… she would definitely be able to handle starter better. A few days ago when I was doing a vent check on the hen I saw ONE mite, no eggs or nastiness otherwise and haven’t seen anything since (I’ve been looking for them). She has also started laying again as of yesterday and has been allowing the rooster to mate her so I took that as a good sign.

BUT TODAY, like 20 mins ago, I went to let all the birds out and apparently (my SO saw) Tito went tumbling down the ramp (it’s the TSC Sentinel coop). He was walking around like a little drunk chicken, HORRIBLE balance and kind of a crooked neck. Looks neurological to my untrained eye. So naturally i got concerned because this is a point that further intervention is involved. I checked his vent and it’s not great so I’ll clean that up today. Also going to pick up some poultry cell and spinosad dust today for vitamin deficiency and mites, clean out the coop and maybe spray with permethrin to test for mites (unless that’s overboard… it’s very inconvenient to do so for many reasons).

Is there anything else I should be thinking about? I can post pictures. I’m not sure what else to check.

I don’t know if those three are vaccinated for mareks but my other chickens are. I bought them from a poultry show (pullet from a trailer outside lol and the hen and rooster from the inside sales yard) so im mildly confident they may be vaccinated.

Im not interested in going to a vet but I will do a necropsy if necessary. That being said I’d like to do what I can to prevent progression. And death.

 

[MysteryChicken]

Vaccinated birds can still get infected, or carry the virus. The vaccine lessens symptoms, & helps prevent tumor growth.

 

[Ruby Rogue]

I don't think they need a high protein game bird feed, I use a %16 layer crumble. I'm not sure this is a contributing factor though. @azygous @Wyorp Rock

 

[Eggcessive]

The rooster may have wry neck, but wry neck is just a symptom. It can be caused by head injury, vitamin E or B1 thiamine deficiency, and is sometimes seen in several diseases such as Mareks. Most people use 400 IU of human vitamin E and some form of extra thiamine daily along with a little scrambled egg or sunflower seed for the small amount of selenium needed. Thiamine is included in human B complex tablets and there is some in your Poultry Cell. I would treat for at least 2 weeks. Make sure that he is able to get enough to eat and drink, or make a watery mash of his food and hand feed him.

OEGs will do fine on an all flock/flock raiser feed with 20% protein. The pullet should not get layer feed until she is of laying age. The rooster would do best on all flock, but you need to have oyster shell available for the hen and later for the pullet when she is laying. Gamebird feeds can vary a lot. What is the protein in it, or the brand?

 

[TwistedTayy]

New development: white cottage cheese -like poop

 

[Eggcessive]

The white part is urates or kidney waste. Just clean them up and trim any excess fluff, so that it doesn’t collect. There may be some issues with pasty butt from the feed changes. Probiotics can help. Buttermilk and plain yogurt have probiotics if your brand of feed does not list them on the label. Are they drinking plenty of water?

 

[Wyorp Rock]

How long ago did you move them from quarantine to the "poultry yard"? I assume the yard has other poultry housed there?

Can you get photos of the hen's vent too? Did it look like the roosters?

Crop's emptying ok?
Imho, you are complicating the feed.
Game bird feed is for Game Birds = Quail, Turkey, Pheasant, etc. these specialty feeds generally have high protein of 20% and up - too much protein for chickens to eat long term.
You have Old English Game Bantams = chickens.

I would feed an All flock feed or chick starter 18-20% protein, with grit (crushed granite), oyster shell in separate containers - all free choice. A SMALL amount of your treat of choice.

If possible, get a fecal float to see if Coccidiosis is a problem, while they do that, have them check for worms. They are on "new ground" so Coccidiosis may be part of the problem.
Get them eating one type of feed and stop swapping around.

Rid them of the mites.

The balance issue is concerning, see that he's drinking well, his crop is emptying, he has no mites. Poultry Vitamins that contain E and B1 would be good, but getting that fecal float is important. If they have Coccidiosis, then you don't want to give extra B1.

 

[TwistedTayy]

How long ago did you move them from quarantine to the "poultry yard"? I assume the yard has other poultry housed there?

Can you get photos of the hen's vent too? Did it look like the roosters?

Crop's emptying ok?
Imho, you are complicating the feed.
Game bird feed is for Game Birds = Quail, Turkey, Pheasant, etc. these specialty feeds generally have high protein of 20% and up - too much protein for chickens to eat long term.
You have Old English Game Bantams = chickens.

I would feed an All flock feed or chick starter 18-20% protein, with grit (crushed granite), oyster shell in separate containers - all free choice. A SMALL amount of your treat of choice.

If possible, get a fecal float to see if Coccidiosis is a problem, while they do that, have them check for worms. They are on "new ground" so Coccidiosis may be part of the problem.
Get them eating one type of feed and stop swapping around.

Rid them of the mites.

The balance issue is concerning, see that he's drinking well, his crop is emptying, he has no mites. Poultry Vitamins that contain E and B1 would be good, but getting that fecal float is important. If they have Coccidiosis, then you don't want to give extra B1.

Ok so I’ve been compiling info and helping out my boy. Upon cleaning the vent, I noticed he definitely has more mites than the hen so I’m thinking that’s the issue. I trimmed up his feathers and gave him poultry cell direct in addition to adding it to their coop water to help the girls.

This is the feed they are on. I realize that they are chickens… I’m not that dense. But of what I’d read on OEGB they said that was fine. In hindsight the starter was a mistake, I’ll admit that. The pullet is on the verge of laying and they’ve been on this feed for 10 days. Before that they were on the starter, which was Manna Pro Gamebird Showbird Starter Grower (24% protein, says it’s fine for chickens). They have always had oyster shell and grit available free choice. They didn’t eat the all flock feed, which is what I normally feed to my other poultry because I don’t WANT to complicate my feeding. And as I said, I also have other chickens ducks and geese and have had no issues in raising them nor are they having any issues at the moment.

I have seen them all drinking and eating. His crop is fine and besides the balance and the vent issues and the mites, his attitude is actually the same as normal. Very spicy but sweet when handled.

The hens vent is below. The first picture is from today (looking MUCH better believe it or not) and the second picture is the day we got back but after the first cleaning (Jan 7); the roosters vent actually looked a little better than the hens in this picture that day. I’ve been checking them both regularly and they both seemed to be healing until today. Well the hens still seems better despite the mites. It was VERY raw and I was worried about infection. Put udder balm on it after the second cleaning and it’s been going well since. Like I said she even started laying again.

I stripped all bedding out of the coop and sprayed it with spinosad spray (same active ingredient as elector psp but way weaker). Waited for it to dry. Put in fresh bedding and straw (neat boxes) and put down some dust that was recommended by the tsc employee (not diatomaceous earth) that helped her chickens with mites.

Anyone know what causes mites?

 

[Wyorp Rock]

The hen also has a severe mite infestation.

Not sure what dust was recommended but hopefully it was a Permethrin based poultry dust. Dust the birds to help get rid of the mites. I put the dust in a sock, then pat it all over the bird working the dust into the feathers to the skin. Mites just don't gather at the vent, though that is a favorite spot, they can be found all over.

Those scabby looking areas are a combination of mites, mite debris, nits, scabs from the birds picking at themselves, etc. If they were mine, I would wash them well, see if some of the crusty material will fall off, don't force it, then apply a layer of triple antibiotic ointment or even vaseline to the crusts. Work the ointment/vaseline into and under the crust if possible. Your goal will be healing, but the crusty areas will eventually slough off. The mites will have a hard time crawling in ointment, it may help smother them along with a good dusting. Nits will have a hard time hatching or thriving in the ointment/oil/vaseline as well.
Repeat dusting every 7 days until the mites are gone.

The balance issue may well be from anemia due to the mites. I would direct the trio at 1cc per 3 pounds of weight with the Poultry Cell. Have them eat their feed and if you have any beef liver or heart give them about 1tablespoon each to eat - it can be cooked or raw.
Mites will kill birds. They can be a common parasites, they can live on the bird and certain types like to live in the crevices of wood/housing and come to feed at night. Mites and lice both can be brought in/travel on wild birds, rodents and other animals.

Is the all flock you use pelleted or crumbles? With the birds being young and bantam do you notice if they struggle with the size of the feed? Perhaps soaking or fermenting feed may make it more appealing to them.

It would be worth inspecting your other flocks to see if they need dusted and housing treated as well.