Ok, I need help identifying these ones, ******* closed *******

[Rusty Hills Farm]

I'm confused. Why do some here consider an Ameraucana to be an EE just because it doesn't conform to show standards

Precisely because it does not conform to the standard. Americanas have not been a breed all that long and the only way to "lock in" the breed standards is by eliminating anything and everything that does not conform.

Think about dog breeding. Most breeds around today needed infusions of other breeds to become the dogs they are today. So the breeders scrupulously culled out anything that did not match the standard and did it so thoroughly that today every single time you breed a boxer to a boxer or a Dobie to a Dobie, you get puppies that consistently look like boxers or Dobies. That's what Ameraucana breeders are doing today--trying to "set" those qualities into their breed so that--like, oh, RIRs--every single chick that hatches LOOKS like a true Ameraucana. So they breed conforming hens to conforming roos and eliminate anything nonconforming from their breeding program. When you breed the nonconforming offspring and call the results "Ameraucanas", you are basically undoing all their hard work, which tends to make them a mite testy.

JMO, of course.


Rusty​

 

[halo]

I couldn't have put that better myself.

 

[thomas h]

Ya . what I know from my freind Denis .

HE bought his ameraucanas 24 years ago..

when he was breeding them they change . his became araucanas type and ameraucana type .

And in the end he breeds for himself .he's picky...
He also wonders why the eggs are not blue from the hatcheries .
He sayes they must have mixed them somehow .

he really enjoyshis birds .,,

thats the point .. enjoy your birds for what ever reason you keep them ..or change your flock to what you really what .

right now he is in the hospital recovering .

But i plan on getting some chickens from his type ..cana-aucana .LOL
If everything turns out for me .hard times here ..

I like his chickens what ever they are with a moustash.and rumpless .



chickens needed standards to be met or it would change to many types .mutty not breeding true .



thomas

 

[walkswithdog]

What Rusty said.

Without meeting a standard, there is no way to tell purebred from mutt, no breeding true.

I know schools now-a-days are all about non-competitiveness and do it your own way and have been for awhile...

But to have a pure bred anything, that looks like a purebred anything, and breeds true - you have to meet and keep a standard. Or you get "purebreds" that look exactly like MUTTS. Because some bunch of numbnuts went down a different patch because they wanted a different LOOK. Now it doesn't even LOOK like a purebred. I got a lot of "pure bred labradors" in my obedience classes that any self respecting lab breeder would have culled. It always made me sad.

The Standard... is the STANDARD to which all purebred anything is supposed to be bred and NOT open to "I wanna do it my way."

You can do it your way, but please then don't call them purebreds once they don't meet the standard and don't breed true.

And do not even get me started on designer breeds...

Life long pure bred dog enthusiast - so it's a thing...

The standard is the standard, if you want to breed purebred chickens of a particular breed you breed within the standard. After that you're breeding pet quality, not show quality birds and purchasers should know that.

Not come here or show up at a show, confused as to the quality of what they bought and thinking just because it's supposedly purebred that it can be shown or bred to produce decent birds.

Sure they will make decent layers and pets but if a buyer shows any interest in showing at all or breeding, revealing the SERIOUS flaws and DQs in sold birds ought to be something done.

From a hatchery you expect a total buyer beware, buyer has the obligation to become informed mentality.

I wouldn't be comfortable if someone left here with my layer/pet quality birds and thought they could ever show what they produced. I am very specific when I sell animals.

 

[Year of the Rooster]

Rusty Hills Farm and walkswithdog hit it right on the money.

 

[Alpha]

Quote:
So a bird's color is the one single thing that determines whether it's an EE or not then?. If it isn't Black, Blue, Blue wheaten, Brown red, Buff, Silver, Wheaten or White, but it possesses all of the other right characteristics (peacomb, muffs and beard, slate colored legs), then that automatically makes it an EE mutt?

To use your dog breeding analogy: If you breed a black German Shepard to a silver & tan one, the resulting pups will most likely be a mixture of their parents color. They may not be a standardized color representative of the breed, but they're still GERMAN SHEPARDS nonetheless.

 

[thomas h]

well I bred dogs .not german shepards
As a breeder I would not bred them together . The offspring might be recordable but would not make it to the breeding registry. not for breeding , nuetered .

Also as a dog breeder I would buy only the best stock which may take time to get .
breeding two registerlable dogs or buying registered puppies doesnot mean the pups make it to the breeding registry.

you only win in the show with the best .
I did that with a puppy best in northamerica till she was 6 months old

thomas

 

[walkswithdog]

Quote:
So a bird's color is the one single thing that determines whether it's an EE or not then?. If it isn't Black, Blue, Blue wheaten, Brown red, Buff, Silver, Wheaten or White, but it possesses all of the other right characteristics (peacomb, muffs and beard, slate colored legs), then that automatically makes it an EE mutt?

To use your dog breeding analogy: If you breed a black German Shepard to a silver & tan one, the resulting pups will most likely be a mixture of their parents color. They may not be a standardized color representative of the breed, but they're still GERMAN SHEPARDS nonetheless.

There are recognized and UNrecognized colors of German SHEPHERDS (they herd not ard).

You do not get a blend of colors, crossing shepherds. They're not crayons. Sable to black and tan yields either sable or black and tan. (Max von Stephanitz himself hated the black and silver - calling it washed out/dilute and dilute in any form was undesireable.)

The recognized colors are black/tan, unfortunately black and cream and black and silver were left as qualifying, the sables in gray sable, brown sable, red sable and black sable, and blacks.

Off colored dogs (unrecognized colors - self blue, self liver, blue and rust, liver and rust, and other DQ colors) cannot be shown and though technically shepherds they should NOT be bred. Whites now have their own registry.

In chickens you CAN blend and mess up color varieties - yielding a flat mess. Which is why standards have set color varieties they recognize. So that the breed will LOOK like the breed. In recognizeable TYPE and Color.

Type is HUGELY important, but those breeds that choose to specify color have their reasons. It is the Standard. The way the breed was set and developed.

You can have an off colored bird inmost breeds and it's an off variety.

But the Ameraucana club was very specific: it hits on ALL criteria, including color or it is NOT an Ameraucana.

That is the way it IS, the way it was developed. The way the club wants it. It is the Standard. Like it or lump it - that is the Standard. So no, off colored Ameraucana are just EE's. Usually very pretty and very typey EE's but EE's none the less.

Like a DQ colored shepherd, sure it looks like a shepherd but it's still a DQ shepherd. Not a thing to breed for.

Either the Standard and having a purebred that MEETS the standard is important or you start to devolve into individual human want its.

Want it's killed the temperament and type in the off colored, bred for pet, DQ varieties in German Shepherds.

Usually when people throw out the Standard in one place they start slipping in others, because that's what they have. And then the downhill thing begins.

If it's important to have a purebred, it's important it MEET the Standard.

 

[TK Poultry]

go to my site click on ameraucana myths and there is a huge thing with like everything you need to know

 

[thomas h]

Quote:
That helped me out . thanks .

Now my buddy bought his 24 years ago as ameraucanas from montreal I believe .I ll correct the location if I am wrong as we talk chickens lots

and he sayes that that stock must have been ameraucana and auracanas . because of what comes out with breeding .
but It may be much more then that..

If you notice we are in canada


thomas