Old and Rare Breeds

[Yellow House Farm]

Remember, too, that it is breeders that write the Standard. The Standard for the breed is written by the breeders of that breed who are petitioning for the acceptance of the breed. It's not that a committee of Rock breeders are setting the standard for Dorkings. The standards that are written such that their achievement requires double-mating were written by breeders who knew that double mating would be necessary for the attainment of top quality birds. Again, at the time it just felt more feasable than in the current climate.

 

[fowlman01]

I'm not an expert Lord knows, but I thought I was supposed to breed my best of both sexes. The idea of breeding inferior birds for the sake of shows troubles me. It seems like putting style over substance. I realize it's not the breeders' fault if the show standards have put them in this position.

Double mating is for color only. It has nothing to do with breeding inferior birds for show. Show birds should be bred for performance over all other traits and type over color. I'm not sure how you came up with that idea, but that is how these screwy things become true on BYC.

Walt

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

Would that then be an admission that essentially you run a male line? We've done the same in Muscovies, we keep the female face small enough to keep the male caruncling just within the respectable.

I don't see anything difficult with double breeding save that, to have a full line, one would treat one breed a bit like two breeds. I think nowadays many folks are so busy trying to have six and seven breeds that they've yet to engage in specialization. Moreover, I think that the general awareness of poultry breeding had plummeted so thoroughly into oblivion toward the end of the 20th century. The new rise in keeping chickens is also eventuating a return of proper breeding in poultry, which will, I'm certain, take a decade or more. All of these conversations we've been having on these threads here are only adding to a knowledge base that, expanding, will encourage breeders to relearn important aspects of breeding such as double mating, etc.. It's all rather positive.

In the meantime, though, and, perhaps, part of the process, we go through phases, such as the rise and eventual fall of all of the poorly developed and redundant fetish varieties offered by Greenfire Farms and the like.

Sorry about the wording, some days my English is horrible and I can't think of the right words to use.
Our line of sumatras is neither male nor female. Our males and females have both won equally. With the solid black/blue/dun birds like sumatras, color isn't much of an issue. The tails always look good and it would be pointless to breed for more of a male or female tail. You need hens with the proper tail angle to throw roosters that will have a horizontal tail when it comes in fully. Lots of people cull too early for tails on cockerels or breed hens with low tails which produces roosters with below horizontal tails. Without good males, you can't have good females and vice/versa.
I hope that made sense to everyone else.

 

[saladin]

So many people misunderstand: The trouble is not at all with the Standard.

The trouble is actually 4-fold (imo):

1. Judging is done today by comparison instead of scoring as mentioned in the Standard. (Of course, this is because we the exhibitors prefer one day shows and like to be finished by 3pm).

2. Fad breeding instead of breeding to the Standard.

3. Exhibitors are attached emotionally to their birds and often fail to see faults.

4. Judges are human and will be drawn to breeds they prefer or will turn the show into a mere feather show instead of following the Standard themselves.


With this stated, I think it always best to breed to the Standard. You might not always win, but you can feel proud of the results you achieve and the birds you present.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

...

With this stated, I think it always best to breed to the Standard. You might not always win, but you can feel proud of the results you achieve and the birds you present.

I may have mentioned before that I don't show (not that I won't) but the only birds I'm currently breeding are Black Penedesencas and not likely to find a place in a show for them.
But every chick that comes out and more closely meets the standard (Catalonian, Irish and Argentinian) from birth to maturity does make me proud. I never plan on messing with a good thing. A truly unique bird - according to the standard.

 

[hallerlake]

So many people misunderstand: The trouble is not at all with the Standard.

The trouble is actually 4-fold (imo):

1. Judging is done today by comparison instead of scoring as mentioned in the Standard. (Of course, this is because we the exhibitors prefer one day shows and like to be finished by 3pm).

2. Fade breeding instead of breeding to the Standard.

3. Exhibitors are attached emotionally to their birds and often fail to see faults.

4. Judges are human and will be drawn to breeds they prefer or will turn the show into a mere feather show instead of following the Standard themselves.


With this stated, I think it always best to breed to the Standard. You might not always win, but you can feel proud of the results you achieve and the birds you present.

Fade breeding?

 

[hallerlake]

Quote: That's why I came to the experts with my question. I'm here to learn.

If beginners can't ask questions without being ridiculed, they'll stop asking, and myths and misinformation will be perpetuated.

 

[catdaddyfro]

Fade breeding?

Fad breeding (hip, the in things, new colors, off the wall/ hodge podge) LOL

Jeff

 

[Coop Scoop Boogie]

That's why I came to the experts with my question. I'm here to learn.

If beginners can't ask questions without being ridiculed, they'll stop asking, and myths and misinformation will be perpetuated.

I think this is a good statement to remember. If folks can't ask for opinions and/or information
without feeling we are being admonished then they quit asking and just play it by wing so
to speak. Never lose the opportunity to educate while encouraging them to keep learning
and coming back for more. JMHO

 

[Muffin14143]

I am finally connected with a gentleman in Ontario who has Belgium Meschel Malines and am ordering eggs! I am so excited. Here are two sites he shared with me that you might find interesting.
The first one is about the breed in general and the second is from his site.

http://www.aviculture-europe.nl/nummers/06E01A07.pdf
http://www.bulbsoffire.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=81&Itemid=109

My goodness, those are very pretty birds! if l had extra space in my coop I would love to add a little trio of those beauties.